Trump v Zelenskyy

fillyboy said:
Iran?, ballistic missiles? I'm curious to know what's playing out in Donalds mind, I know that to stabilise the Middle East he'll take out Iran or at least allow Israel the honour, North Korea also supply Russia, maybe take out NK and Iran which will weaken Russia, China will stay under the radar because of trade. Interesting.
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Doubt he will make a move on fat Kim ??

Unless he wants to sacrifice Seoul ???

Fat Kim has nukes !!!!
 
Who knows?
I mean, yes, Iran is definately a problem that needs solutions and I'm sure one will be found before this decade is out.
I'm not so sure about Russia though, I have a feeling they are just playing their part in all of this along with chiiiinaa as the new boogeyman waiting in the wings.
We, the west, is their respective boogeyman presented to their masses...
We simply don't know, and likely never will.

All of America's alies are slowly bending to Trump's will, in a cultural sense, regardless of what's going on in the bigger picture behind the scenes.
 
My gut feeling is that Trump simply doesn't understand how well the post World War II order has served the USA, and he is giving it all away. The quote I posted last week is still the best explanation I have found of what might be going on:

A Russian international affairs scholar, who can speak only privately, remarked to me from Moscow that Putin’s team sees Trump’s team as a clown car, full of amateurs — easy pickings for the savvy and cynical Putin’s ultimate goal: “MRGA — Make Russia Great Again (and Make America Less Great Again).” Putin’s long-term goal, he added, is to manage the decline of U.S. hegemony so that America is “just one of the peer great powers,” focused on the Western Hemisphere and withdrawn militarily from Europe and Asia. Putin sees Trump as his blunt instrument “to manage that inevitable decline.”

Will Trump and his G.O.P. bobbleheads ever wake up to that? Maybe — when it’s too late.
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Western hemisphere in this context usually means the Americas.
 
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So where are we?
Russia already controls 50% of the territory which has mineral resources.
Amounts of reserves (the winnable part) are uncertain, but worth several $Tn.

Trump offers to take half gains from the other mineral reserves. Nett gains presumably so Trump would say he has no profit until all mining costs are paid for. Guess who would do the sums? Probably the same people who are lying about how much Zelensky has already had from USA.

Zelensky gets the presence of unspecified USA people working in the mines. That is supposed to put Putin off.
No military anything.

No restrictions on Putin, so he is free to carry on bombing other areas, capturing more land.
Putin has said that he would encourage US investment in extractions for Russia. A tacit agreement not to bomb them. Probably as long as he gets the proceeds he wants.

So Zelensky gets nothing. Hardly suprising he isn't happy.

Zelensky has no support apart from some pop-pops from Europe, so freer of resistance, Putin takes the rest of Ukraine, at a much increased rate, wherever he wants.
If Europe wants to they could probably buy some US arms and defences such as Patriot.

The remaining Ukranian arme gets depleted
Zelensky would be replaced in bogus elections. A few US workers get killed by "Ukranians". New Ukr Pres claims those are rebels who don't want peace.

USA withdraws its people.
Ukraine reverts to being Russian territory. Which is what many of us said at the start.


Did I miss anything?
 
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A pithy take from a few years ago, on whether Trump is a great strategist:

1740803191367.png
 
For balance, here is an article in the Telegraph which argues that Trump might have a grand strategy. It is similar to other articles I have read. They all talk about concepts I had never really heard of before, such as the USA going back to the "Monroe doctrine" and creating a new world order based on hemispheres of influence. Western hemisphere in this context usually means the Americas.

www.telegraph.co.uk

There is method to Donald Trump’s Ukrainian madness

The president may be aiming for a grand bargain with Putin to allow the US to take on China
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
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An article here breaking it down:


It concludes:

Yet the longer-term effects could be hugely destabilizing. An international order based on regional spheres of influence raises existential questions for Japan and South Korea, as it does for Taiwan and Ukraine at the very least. And for the global economy, the consequences will be, as economists like to say, sub-optimal.

Yet that might suit Trump, since at the end of the day power is a relative game. To him, it might not matter if a world economy organized into regional spheres of influence is worse off than otherwise – so long as the Western Hemisphere is better off than the rest, and the US is its dominant force.

That’s a bleak vision, but it may well be what Trump hopes to achieve.
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Western hemisphere in this context usually means the Americas.
 
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Justin Passing said:
So where are we?
Russia already controls 50% of the territory which has mineral resources.
Amounts of reserves (the winnable part) are uncertain, but worth several $Tn.

Trump offers to take half gains from the other mineral reserves. Nett gains presumably so Trump would say he has no profit until all mining costs are paid for. Guess who would do the sums? Probably the same people who are lying about how much Zelensky has already had from USA.

Zelensky gets the presence of unspecified USA people working in the mines. That is supposed to put Putin off.
No military anything.

No restrictions on Putin, so he is free to carry on bombing other areas, capturing more land.
Putin has said that he would encourage US investment in extractions for Russia. A tacit agreement not to bomb them. Probably as long as he gets the proceeds he wants.

So Zelensky gets nothing. Hardly suprising he isn't happy.

Zelensky has no support apart from some pop-pops from Europe, so freer of resistance, Putin takes the rest of Ukraine, at a much increased rate, wherever he wants.
If Europe wants to they could probably buy some US arms and defences such as Patriot.

The remaining Ukranian arme gets depleted
Zelensky would be replaced in bogus elections. A few US workers get killed by "Ukranians". New Ukr Pres claims those are rebels who don't want peace.

USA withdraws its people.
Ukraine reverts to being Russian territory. Which is what many of us said at the start.


Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
There is of course the small factor of the rest of Europe. This is possibly the only card Zelenskyy has. i.e. there could be more than one buyer of his minerals deal.
 
gas112 said:
About time someone told Zelensky that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of his countrymen to be killed purely to suit his ego .
Vance is right he needs to thank the west for supplying him with weapons and financing his corrupt regime .
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you've got to stop reading the news upside down
 
Munroast said:
Watched it a couple of times now - I think the villain tonight was Vance, Trump and Zelensky were heading in the right direction - then Vance started to tell Zelensky to say thank-you, he was trying to humiliate Zelensky -just appalling behaviour.

great shame this deal has been compromised by the ignorant Vance, I'm sure a deal had been done or all the cameras wouldn't have been there, Trump wanted to be seen clinching the deal, then Vance wrecked the whole thing.
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Correct. (y)
 
Lirefighter said:
On a conspiratorial note.
Perhaps the west realised years ago that they had painted themselves into a corner and needed help.
Trump was the right man at the right time to put forward.
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Thats not a conspiratorial note, its a wise after the event prequel.
 
gas112 said:
TRUMP HAS NOT BEEN IN POWER FOR THE 3 YEARS OF THE WAR , regardless of who started it and why no way is ukraine going to win it or draw or get any where close to it . So instead of allowing hundreds of thousand of his country men women children to be killed he should have been straight to negotiating table cap in hand whatever instead of his ego allowing so many deaths and injuries over the past 3 years
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In what universe does a country thats just been invaded sit down to negotiate. You're describing capitulation of the cheese eating surrender monkey type. Chamberlain style appeasement.
 
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