Trying to understand my wiring.

[MarkFish]

The answer to this question is techincally yes. There is nothing in the regulations that stipulate everything must be brought up to current standards.

You mean "no" then?

However, for your own safety, I would suggest that an Electrical Installation Test report be conducted on your premises before anyone fits an new Consumer Unit. This will highlight problem areas and give you a better chance of judging what needs to be replaced and what doesn't.

Up to them. They'll be doing so much work that I'd have thought they prefer to work out if it's safe once they've done the stuff that obviously needs to be done. But I don't care if they want to test it beforehand. I won't be keeping 40yo rubber cable or unfused daisy chains of spurs no matter how much they assure me it's safe!

the lighting circuits will have to be properly earthed.

That's bad news. I was hoping they wouldn't need to touch that.

No it is not against the regulations I have done that numerous times where a socket is need in a room and it is easier to drill through from the kitchen rather than damaging a whole wall - the electrician should in any case provide you with a schedule and/or diagram of which sockets are on which circuit and a copy of that should be next to your consumer unit.

Excellent on all counts.

This is why a Electrical Installation Inspection Report is so important......

Wouldn't they have to lift floorboards to do that, just like I have to? Or do they have some kind of Time Team-esque magnetic cable locator in which case it would be money well spent.

It is required now - though not many seem to do it- not sure when it became such a requirement though.

Excellent.

 

[MarkFish]

How come everyone got a 'thanks' except me

I'm anti-semetic and I thought you might be Jewish!

Anyway you've got 'em now.

 

[riveralt]

Although it is not a regulation requirement, I and I'm sure many other electricians, would not fit a new Consumer Unit (except for a total rewire) without first of conducting a thorough test of the circuits - that does not necessary mean ripping floor boards up - though if you are replacing socket circuits and providing an earth to the lighting circuits that is going to happen anyway.

 

[MarkFish]

Although it is not a regulation requirement, I and I'm sure many other electricians, would not fit a new Consumer Unit (except for a total rewire) without first of conducting a thorough test of the circuits - that does not necessary mean ripping floor boards up - though if you are replacing socket circuits and providing an earth to the lighting circuits that is going to happen anyway.

As I say if they want to do a safety test of the old circuits before they put 80pc of the wiring in the skip that's fine by me. In contrast if they seriously propose to test the circuits they throw away, but not the finished circuits they put it I might have an issue with that.

As I say, even if they did a test of the old wiring and tell me it's safe they will still be replacing all of the crappy rubber insulated wire and removing all of the unfused spurs as a minumum. So they won't be saving themsleves much work by testing up front.

 

[Adam_151]

You'd do well to order a visual installation condition report, perhaps with a few cursory tests thrown in for good measure. This along with your requirements for the installation shoudl allow a scope of works to be drawn up, full testing can then be carried out on circuits which are to remain

 

[riveralt]

As I say if they want to do a safety test of the old circuits before they put 80pc of the wiring in the skip that's fine by me.

Skip me arse - down to the scrappy for weigh in.

 

[flameport]

Could you exaplin "singles"?

Wiring comprising of individual insulated wires, which in your case would be black, green and red (or just black and red for the lighting), where the steel conduit containing the wires is a separate item, and each wire can be installed/removed separately.

The alternative being one cable containing 3 wires within it, where the entire cable is manufactured and installed as one piece.

 

[securespark]

A quarter of a century ago when very green, I can remember a boss telling a customer that rubber cable was well past its best and needed replacing....

 

[MarkFish]

Finally found time to get someone to take a look.

He spent this afternoon having a good poke around and although he hasn't sent a written report yet it was a rather surprising outcome.

It checked out fine in all his tests. There is a ring circuit for the plugs. But there is rubber 2.5 twin and earth. He had a look at the rubber cable where he could get at it and thought it looked ok. He's prepared to fit a modern Consumer unit to the circuit with the existing rubber wires in place. (I've had a good poke round as well and all the rubber I can find it flexible and strong in the places I can get to it.)

Which gives me a problem I hadn't anticipated.

I don't *have* to have any major work done. I can have a new ring circuit in the kitchen & a new consumer unit without touching the existing circuits. I have to decide for myself in the rubber wire is too dangerous to leave.

Is it the rubber really dangerous? Can it wait 10 years or until the RCDs start tripping out?

PS: I haven't had anything in writing yet so I might be misquoting the guy.

 

[JohnW2]

Is it the rubber really dangerous? Can it wait 10 years or until the RCDs start tripping out?

Oh that it were that simple - RCDs are no panacea. If deteriorating rubber resulted in a low-grade live-neutral fault, you could theoretically get a 'smouldering fire' which evolved into the house burning down without any RCD tripping. Of course, you could gamble, and may well end up lucky (as do some gamblers), but ......

IMO, rubber cable is well past its sell-by date.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[riveralt]

I'm surprised the inspector never mentioned the lack of earthing to the lights.

 

[MarkFish]

I'm surprised the inspector never mentioned the lack of earthing to the lights.

He did.

 

[riveralt]

I'm surprised the inspector never mentioned the lack of earthing to the lights.

He did.

I don't *have* to have any major work done.

Well that is major work either running single cable to each point on the existing lighting circuit or running new cable to each point - almost a semi rewire unless you have conduit to each wall switch.

 

[MarkFish]

Is it the rubber really dangerous? Can it wait 10 years or until the RCDs start tripping out?

Oh that it were that simple - RCDs are no panacea. If deteriorating rubber resulted in a low-grade live-neutral fault, you could theoretically get a 'smouldering fire' which evolved into the house burning down without any RCD tripping. Of course, you could gamble, and may well end up lucky (as do some gamblers), but ......

Even so, I'm really not convinced that a fire caused by a live neutral fault with no earth leakage is really that likely. Nor am I sure there are zero fires caused by mistakes during new installation. I'd suspect that new wiring is not a panacea any more than a new consumer unit is.

Having said all that, unless someone comes up with a decent case for keeping it, I'm 99.9 per cent certain to replace the rubber stuff, just so I never have to think about it again.

 

[MarkFish]

Well that is major work either running single cable to each point on the existing lighting circuit or running new cable to each point - almost a semi rewire unless you have conduit to each wall switch.

Does he have to do this? I'm fairly sure he said that with no metal light fittings he could legally leave it completely alone.