Tube installation problem with diagram

[rustynails99]

I'm putting in two new tube's into my garage however one of the them was removed a long time ago but now I have replaced it. The garage has two switches, one on the LHS of the internal door and one on the LHS as you walk in to the garage. Both switches should operate both tubes. I've drawn an image of my setup in paint, hope it makes it clearer. The problem I have at the moment is not being be able to get everything working correctly. I have succeeded in keeping the furthest tube light nearest the garage door on permanently but nothing else. I can't figure out the correct configuration. Especially with the first tube nearest the internal door which has four cables coming into it so four black/neutral, four red/live and earth. Seems from the setup a different type of wire exists between the two switches which has red/blue/yellow wires. As per the diagram the yellow wires attach to the common terminals in both switches. It would seem that the power comes into switch one which is where the incoming power connects to the common. Both switches have three terminals on L1/L2/COMMON.

Here's the layout.

 

[Steve]

As its a garage, can you trace the wires and fill in the blanks for us? Otherwise its an impossible job for us.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[rustynails99]

At tube 1 (better to call it a fitting) the cables appear to be L+N feed in and L+N feed out to somewhere else. One of the others goes to the switch (L + switchline) and the other links the fittings (tubes) together (N + switchline)

The switch wiring looks ok.

I agree with that - following this url It would seem my switches are wired correctly.

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/two_way_lighting.htm

As its a garage, can you trace the wires and fill in the blanks for us? Otherwise its an impossible job for us.

Do you mean hack off the plaster and see where all the wires go, the answer to that would be no but thanks for your idea. Got any others?

I could use a multimeter if I owned one I guess but not sure how to properly identify the wires.

 

[Steve]

As its a garage, can you trace the wires and fill in the blanks for us? Otherwise its an impossible job for us.

Do you mean hack off the plaster and see where all the wires go, the answer to that would be no but thanks for your idea. Got any others?

Yeah ok, by garage I assumed (wrongly) that you meant a brick wall / beamed ceiling.

Yes you need a multimeter. You can pick one up for less than a tenner. Try Maplin.

 

[rustynails99]

thks - Do you have any idea what I would be looking for If I pick up a multimeter?

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[rustynails99]

Don't mean to patronise, but you should'nt be doing any electrical work unless you have a voltage tester to prove that the wiring you're working on is dead.

Only cost a few bob and could prevent a serious injury - or worse!

No problems. I have a mains tester screwdriver which has a neon indicator in the clear plastic handle which lights up when the point of the screwdriver is touched on voltages between 220–250V and my thumb is forming an earth contact with the metal stud set into the top of the handle.

Looks like one of the red ones 2/5/6/9 is live, just tested them.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have a mains tester screwdriver.

Click

 

[ColJack]

ok, firstly, ditch the neon screwdriver and turn the mains off..

secondly. you don't have 4 neutrals at the first light.. you have 3 neutrals and a switch wire that happens to be black..

get a multimeter.. you won't be told again...!!!!

now with the mains off, and the multimeter set to continuity ( or the lowest ohms setting ) switch the switch on and check between the red and black of each cable..

the one that beeps or shows close to 0 ohms is the switch wire.. mark the black with come red tape / sleeving / tie a bit of string round it for all I care as long as you mark it..

connect the 3 remaining blacks to the neutral of the light

now.. using the multimeter again on continuity, put one end on the red wire in the second fitting and then put the other end on the red wires in the first fitting one at a time... the one that beeps / shows close to 0 ohms is the switched loop to the other light.

this red wire and the black you marked earlier need to go into the live of the first light.

the remaining 3 reds go together in a terminal block and are connected to nothing else.

the red, black and earth in the second light go to L,N,E respectively in the second fitting.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[securespark]

From the STICKY:

SAFE ISOLATION.

Lately, there have been incidents of posters taking risks with electricity & working live.

I would like to make everyone using this site acutely aware of the importance of safe isolation.

I get a bit of a bee in my bonnet about this because I have seen the consequences of not isolating safely & it is extremely grim.

To an untrained person, the risks of working with electricity are not always fully appreciated.

Over the 20 + years I've been in this industry, I've heard some shocking things (no pun intended). "Well, I've had a shock before and it's only a little tingle" or even, "It's only a few volts" are comments I hear all too often from customers.

Please, you MUST practice safe isolation before working on an electrical circuit.

The only live working you should do is testing.

It is best to wear gloves when testing to avoid any possibility of contact with live parts.

Remember also that hair can conduct electricity: tie it back.

Do not wear metallic jewellery or watches. Electrical contact with these can cause the metal to heat up and cause severe burns.

I have seen pictures of an electrician who lost a finger due to his wedding ring arcing against a live terminal.


SAFE ISOLATION PROCEDURE:

1. First obtain a two-pole voltage detector and test it on a known source.

2. Isolate the circuit you wish to work on.

3. Test the circuit you wish to work on to see if it is dead. Test between
L & N, L & E and N & E.

4. Then test the device again on a known source to prove it is still working.

5. Lock off the device if possible. If the fuse board is in a garage or outhouse that is lockable, lock it and keep the key with you.

If you are removing a Wylex-type fuse or MCB, buy a blank fuse carrier & fit that in place of the fuse, then a fuse cannot be re-inserted by accident.


I know you'll be thinking, that's a bl**dy faff just to change a socket, but, believe me, it's better safe than sorry.

Do not put yourself or your loved ones at risk and never fall victim to complacency!

 

[rustynails99]

well thanks for all! the responses.

get a multimeter.. you won't be told again...!!!! icon_wink.gif
now with the mains off, and the multimeter set to continuity ( or the lowest ohms setting ) switch the switch on and check between the red and black of each cable.. the one that beeps or shows close to 0 ohms is the switch wire.. mark the black with come red tape / sleeving / tie a bit of string round it for all I care as long as you mark it.. connect the 3 remaining blacks to the neutral of the light

I found the switch wire using a multimeter and marked it accordingly.

now.. using the multimeter again on continuity, put one end on the red wire in the second fitting and then put the other end on the red wires in the first fitting one at a time... the one that beeps / shows close to 0 ohms is the switched loop to the other light.

I found it difficult to identify the switch live (the wire that runs between tube 1 and tube 2) because I could'nt get the leads to reach between the two tubes. So I tried using my jump leads as extension not sure it worked because all readings were 1. no change on any of the red wires.

this red wire and the black you marked earlier need to go into the live of the first light. the remaining 3 reds go together in a terminal block and are connected to nothing else.

I eventually got something setup, after switch on, I now have tube 2 turning on and off with both switches but nothing going on with tube 1.



p.s. good comments from securespark, lucky for me I'm not married yet

 

[ColJack]

set your multimeter to AC volts, on the next highest range above 250 that you have ( probably 500 )

now check that you have voltage between L and earth and L and N at "tube 1"..

you put the 3 blacks into the neutral of tube 1 didn't you? and not just in a spare terminal block like the reds?

if you have 240(ish) volts between L and earth and L and N then your fitting is up the duff..

 

[rustynails99]

all fixed now. thanks for your help. seemingly i had identified the wrong switch wire plus a few of the fittings wires had become dislodged when replacing the underhousing.