two appliances on fcu spur

[Jethro Tull]

I need to connect up awashing machine and tumble dryer in my kitchen. I understand that I should have an isolator switch within easy reach for both appliances. Can I safely run a 2.5 spur cable down from the ring main using an fcu with a 13a fuse as the isolation switch above the worktop for both washing machine and dryer? Thanks for any advice. Just off for a few days so can't respond immediately.

 

[JohnW2]

I need to connect up awashing machine and tumble dryer in my kitchen. I understand that I should have an isolator switch within easy reach for both appliances.

There is no requirement for that, but some people like to have an accessible nearby switch of some sort (which may be an FCU).

Can I safely run a 2.5 spur cable down from the ring main using an fcu with a 13a fuse as the isolation switch above the worktop for both washing machine and dryer?

As above, you can do that for one appliance (usually/often with an switched socket at the bottom for the appliance to plug into - but then you could have just a switch, rather than an FCU, above the counter), but you would have to do it twice for two appliances (i.e. two FCUs/cables and sockets or whatever below) - you can't run two appliances off one 13A FCU, particularly two 'high load' appliances.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

you shouldn't be running these 2 machines at the same time like that.

If you plan to do that, maybe you should run a new cable from the CU/fusebox for the TD.

 

[Jethro Tull]

Thanks, but I am not running two apliances like that, I am just enquiring but thanks anyway.

 

[Jethro Tull]

There is no requirement for that, but some people like to have an accessible nearby switch of some sort (which may be an FCU).
As above, you can do that for one appliance (usually/often with an switched socket at the bottom for the appliance to plug into - but then you could have just a switch, rather than an FCU, above the counter), but you would have to do it twice for two appliances (i.e. two FCUs/cables and sockets or whatever below) - you can't run two appliances off one 13A FCU, particularly two 'high load' appliances.

Kind Regards, John

Thanks for that. It's difficult attaching two FCUs so I will probably drop the ring circuit down to the side where I can fit an accessible double socket.

 

[winston1]

You must not run a washing machine and tumble dryer off a double socket. A double socket is rated at 20 amps, not 26. Use two single sockets.

 

[JohnW2]

You must not run a washing machine and tumble dryer off a double socket. A double socket is rated at 20 amps, not 26. Use two single sockets.

There's no "must not" about it - although I agree that a good few people regard it as undesirable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jethro Tull]

There's no "must not" about it - although I agree that a good few people regard it as undesirable.

Kind Regards, John

So I take it that a double socket is acceptable to the authorities? I must admit that I have run these two apliances in my previous homes on double sockets without a problem.

 

[JohnW2]

So I take it that a double socket is acceptable to the authorities? I must admit that I have run these two apliances in my previous homes on double sockets without a problem.

Many people have.

There is a lot of debate/argument as to what the 'rating' (maximum current between both outlets) of a double socket is. Some assume that it is 26A (i.e. 2 x 13A), but others say that it is only 20A, that stemming from the fact that the Standard for such products requires that they pass a 'temperature rise test' when a total of 20A is being drawn .

However, for a start, I don't think many combinations of dryer + washing machine would actually ever draw more than 20A (I don't think mine ever would/could), but the fact is that we do see reports of plugs/sockets overheating, sometimes to the point of showing appreciable damage, when two such machines had been plugged into the same double socket. On the other hand, many people have had that arrangement operating for years, without any problems.

As far as "acceptable to the authorities" is concerned, the Wiring Regulations are only really concerned with the fixed wiring (which includes the installation of a double socket) - and do not (and really could not) directly concern themselves with what a householder might subsequently plug into that socket. I suppose that an electrician who believed that two such machines would be plugged into it might refuse to install the socket if he/she had been told of that intent - but even if he/she had been told that the intent was something different (and 'acceptable'), then there would be nothing stopping the (same or subsequent) householder plugging in whatever he/she liked.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jethro Tull]

Many people have.

There is a lot of debate/argument as to what the 'rating' (maximum current between both outlets) of a double socket is. Some assume that it is 26A (i.e. 2 x 13A), but others say that it is only 20A, that stemming from the fact that the Standard for such products requires that they pass a 'temperature rise test' when a total of 20A is being drawn .

However, for a start, I don't think many combinations of dryer + washing machine would actually ever draw more than 20A (I don't think mine ever would/could), but the fact is that we do see reports of plugs/sockets overheating, sometimes to the point of showing appreciable damage, when two such machines had been plugged into the same double socket. On the other hand, many people have had that arrangement operating for years, without any problems.

As far as "acceptable to the authorities" is concerned, the Wiring Regulations are only really concerned with the fixed wiring (which includes the installation of a double socket) - and do not (and really could not) directly concern themselves with what a householder might subsequently plug into that socket. I suppose that an electrician who believed that two such machines would be plugged into it might refuse to install the socket if he/she had been told of that intent - but even if he/she had been told that the intent was something different (and 'acceptable'), then there would be nothing stopping the (same or subsequent) householder plugging in whatever he/she liked.

Kind Regards, John

Thanks for that it answers the question.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for that it answers the question.

You're welcome.

Kind Regards, John

 

[aptsys]

You must not run a washing machine and tumble dryer off a double socket. A double socket is rated at 20 amps, not 26. Use two single sockets.

Quite a generalisation. A decent modern tumble drier only consumes between 500W and 1kW

 

[JohnW2]

Quite a generalisation. A decent modern tumble drier only consumes between 500W and 1kW

Indeed - as I recently wrote, I'm far from convinced that (m)any dryer+WM combinations would draw a total >20A for significant periods. In fact, thinking more generally, I doubt than many households have any two plug-in appliances that would draw a total >20A for significant periods - I don't think I have.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jethro Tull]

Indeed - as I recently wrote, I'm far from convinced that (m)any dryer+WM combinations would draw a total >20A for significant periods. In fact, thinking more generally, I doubt than many households have any two plug-in appliances that would draw a total >20A for significant periods - I don't think I have.

Kind Regards, John

All done now. I have extended the ring and fitted an accessable double switched socket. Thanks for your help.

 

[dhutch]

Not sure where the trend for having an switch FCU above counter for each appliance is. Might be nice in an industrial type setting, and or if it was a dp switch in a rental maybe, but in most domestic settings I would just extend the ring down to a double socket, or even a spur, and just plug it in.

As said, it is very unlikely you would have a problem plugging a washing machine and tumble dryer into the same double socket.
- A washing machine will only pull max current while heating the water which is fairly low duty cycle, which might not even be 13a anyway.
- A lot of tumble driers dont use the full 13amp available.
- A lot of users will not use both at the same time anyway, unless doing several loads back to back.


Daniel