Two electric boilers in tendem

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Can two electric boilers be put in tandem to do central heating. Two 12kw boilers working together to get 24kw of wet central heating?
Could they be combined with a switch over relay, should more load be added whist on (cooker or shower)?
Thanks for your help

Ps. I'm not paying electric bill.
 
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The largest domestic single phase supply is 100amps.
Your two boilers @24Kw will draw a little more than 100amp. So no cups of tea (or anything else) when the heating is on!

So, for a starter your property would need a three phase supply.

maybe time to rethink your strategy?
 
The supply to many domestic properties is unsuitable for one electric boiler, two is never going to happen.
Generally they are things to be avoided.
Virtually all other methods of heating are preferable.
 
I installed an electric boiler in a property in the 80s -19kW AFAIK the electricity board installed a three phase supply FOC, probably licking their lips in anticipation at future energy sales
 
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The largest domestic single phase supply is 100amps.
Your two boilers @24Kw will draw a little more than 100amp. So no cups of tea (or anything else) when the heating is on!

So, for a starter your property would need a three phase supply.

maybe time to rethink your strategy?
What about using 18kw of power instead? One 12kw boiler and one 6kw boiler.
 
What if new customers wanted electric heating and nothing else, do you knock them back or install electric heating.
Most customers don't want hear advice or opinions.
 
18kW for a domestic is still a no go - that's around 80A, more than many places have available, and that's before considering the rest of the electrical installation.

If people want electric heating, an electric boiler is not the answer.

18 or 24kW for space heating is rather a lot for a domestic installation - most require far less than that.
 
18kW for a domestic is still a no go - that's around 80A, more than many places have available, and that's before considering the rest of the electrical installation.

If people want electric heating, an electric boiler is not the answer.

18 or 24kW for space heating is rather a lot for a domestic installation - most require far less than that.
Depends on the property & location, I doubt this is a two up two down
 
Regardless, you will need to notify the DNO of the proposed load, as this exceeds the usual agreed supply capacity. Remember that they can disconnect customers who fail to adhere to the terms and conditions set out

And to run the two boilers in tandem, you will need a low loss header. You can’t simply pipe one boiler after the other
 
Depends on the property & location, I doubt this is a two up two down
Very probably not, and there's no reason why a customer (who "doesn't want to hear advice and opinions") shouldn't be able to have that sort of heating if they want - but, if that's what they want, they need to be made aware (as a fact, not advice or opinions) that they would need to have an electricity supply commensurate with such a load and, if necessary (which it very probably would be) be prepared to pay the potentially considerable amount it could cost to have such a supply installed.

Kind Regards, John
 
Electric car chargers are able to vary their current draw to match the homes requirements, there is no technical reason why the same can't be done with electric heating.

Virtually all other methods of heating are preferable.

Not quite, the storage heater is worse, the advantage with the electric boiler is water can store the energy with lower losses too iron laden bricks, so you can heat the water store, and still use it a week latter.

But how much average power is needed to heat a house? In the main the 28 kW gas boiler is installed to work the instant shower, as long as the energy is stored in water, and there would be simply no point in having an electric boiler unless it stores the energy, then a sudden demand due to arriving home for example would be satisfied by the stored energy. So only looking for average power not instant power.

Back early 80's my house had a 4.5 kW gas fire as the only heating, not really good enough, however the problem was time it took to heat house, not keeping house warm, this has been a major problem with the gas boiler, to remove the hysteresis you want to modulate output not switch off/on, so you want the boiler to modulate down to quite a low output, and most will not modulate below 6 kW, so they end up using a mark/space ratio to keep an even heat.

The electric heating also has the problem either on or off rather than modulating although you can have switching between 1, 2 and 3 kW for an electric fire, that seems rare, even when 1 or 2 kW fires are used with thermostatic control, often the user has to select the 1 or 2 kW it is not selected by the thermostat.

We call it a boiler, but of course we don't really boil the water, so in simplest form a cistern with three immersion heaters each set to slightly different temperature can vary between 3, 6, and 9 kW as required, and remove nearly all the hysteresis keeping each room at the temperature selected on the electronic TRV or fan speed if a fan assisted heater is used, and with fan assisted a heat pump can either heat or cool the water store so the same system can both heat the home in winter and cool it in summer.

As to power the Economy 7 traditionally had it's own supply and consumer unit, so there is nothing to stop having a separate supply for the heating.

If solid fuel, gas or oil can be used clearly they are cheaper to run, but the whole idea of the electric boiler being immersion heaters in a tank lends itself to multi fuel. And with solar or wind power the excess can be used for heating, my brother-in-law house would maintain its self at around 14°C using just the excess solar power, the system was designed to heat house rather than export power.

However the installation cost of electric and multi fuel heating systems gets silly, you want the water store above the solid fuel fire so it can thermo syphon, this means reinforced floor to take the weight, and saving energy is all down to control, when the pump runs, etc. It seems the sky is the limit with building management systems, but keeping it simple the circulating pump is powered as if it is the boiler, and the immersion heaters are controlled by the cistern temperature, and TRV heads control each room.

So a house which needs a 28 kW gas boiler with no heat store, will likely only need 9 kW of electric heating because of the heat store. So on return home it can deliver as much as the radiators can dissipate, even with just 40 gallons of water, that is a lot of stored heat, so can deliver 30 kW for an hour, to rewarm house, and 9 kW is enough to maintain the temperature.

The domestic hot water works in reverse to normal, the hot coil has domestic hot water in it heated by the water in the tank, but to heat the domestic hot water fast enough it clearly has to be a very good hot coil, heat exchanger, calorifier which ever name you want to call it by.

The cistern looking at £350 plus and can easy pay £1000, depending on size of house and supply type, may need to double up, so all in all looking at around the £5000 mark to start with and can easy cost 4 times that figure, my brother-in-laws was installed when the house was built, but when he moved and looked at same system in new house, was looking at £50,000 and as he said at 69 it would never pay for its self so he now has no solar panels, and the solid fuel heating is not integrated with the oil and solar heating, the installation costs are just too high.

It can be done, but for most people it is a pipe dream.
 
The electric heating also has the problem either on or off rather than modulating although you can have switching between 1, 2 and 3 kW for an electric fire, that seems rare, even when 1 or 2 kW fires are used with thermostatic control, often the user has to select the 1 or 2 kW it is not selected by the thermostat.

There are some modulating thermostats for electric heating out there. I have electric heating with separate thermostats in each room of my flat. when i replaced the crappy on/off mechanical thermostats i went with Aube (Canadian subsidiary of Honeywell) TH132 A/F which are 16A air/ floor temp with modulating output (in 25% increments) and I think Proportional Integral (PI) control. Cut my energy usage by 25% when compared the on/off bimetallic strip based mechanical thermostats. Did take me some time to find, and if i wasn't used to using Eurotherm PID controllers for work probably would have missed what was on offer.
 
In the main we use mark/space control for electric heating, i.e. on/off, however using a FET this can be rapid or even chopping the wave form, very common was half wave rectified supply, I had one electric hob with 4 elements and you selected 4 levels of heat, but unless using solid state switching any heater using mark/space control has limited contact life, and wave form chopping can cause problems with the supply with large items, OK for a light dimmer, but used with a 16 amp supply it needs to start with special RCD's type F or type B same as with electric car charging.

The use of a water store, even a small water store allows fast warm up as well as modulated output, my first house was hot air, which reasonably fast, but second house central heating had to heat up cold water then the water heated house, this was slower, however a gas fire bridged the gap, so 4.5 kw direct and 20 kW delayed, this house no gas fire, but use geofencing to turn on heating before we get home. But the water store means a small boiler can give that initial boost so instead of 24 kW you can use 12 kW.
 
I've just finished* installing my thermal store - made a huge difference to just the combi boiler, for one thing we can now have a shower at whatever temperature we want :D
I'm 100% with EricMark - you will not need 24kW of heating unless you live in a mansion. You only need the heating load plus some extra to allow for heating up the store. Our flat has a combi boiler with a minimum heating output of something like 9kW - when I fitted a thermal store (nearly 10 years ago), I measured the heating load as only 2kW even during the cold spell in Dec 2010, so the boiler and heating were massively mismatched.
The bigger the store you can afford/have space for, the more averaging of loads you can do. It's like the old days of "how many baths can you run before someone gets a cold bath" - which is a function of how much heat you can store (size of tank), and how quickly you can replenish that heat. A big store means you can supply all your peak loads (baths, showers etc) from stored heat and replenish it at a lower rate. The smaller the store, the more you have to consider the ability of the heat source to provide heat as you use it.

Choose a passive system and there's no pumps or anything to worry about. The one I've just fitted is a custom version of McDonald's Thermflow (I had custom requirements, and tight space constraints). They have an Electraflow variant specifically for electric only systems - it's the same principle but has more immersion heaters. I have to say that dealing with them was great - in the past I've had suppliers argue about what I want, because it doesn't match their standard products. From agreeing the spec to delivery was a couple of weeks for a custom build.

Oh yes, I once looked at electric boilers - my reaction was to wonder if they were made of unobtanium as that was the only explanation I could think of for the price :eek:

* Well, the basic plumbing is finished, still some controls and lagging to finish.
 

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