Two Lights Controlled by a Single Switch

[ericmark]

I got a smart switch for the dinning room when it was used by my wife after an operation as a bedroom for a time, so I could use a magnetic push and turn switch so she could switch lights on/off from the bed.

However she used google Nest Mini and voice control, so I could have done it all by simply fitting a smart bulb, and leaving the switch always turned on.

The problem with the smart bulb is the default is on. Some I am told you can select the default, but in the main default on is good as at the switch turn it off and on again and the bulb lights, but if you have a power cut, then it will also turn on when power returns. I as a work around program in a time when they switch off, say 9 am so if there is a power cut they will turn off again at 9 am. But power cuts are rare.

What we found was the living room needs more than the main light, so we have up lighters, spot lights and cabinet lights to supplement the main light, great we turn them on as required, but on leaving the room we would need to walk around selecting each lamp, however since all are smart in some way, be it an adaptor, or bulb, hey google turn off living room lights turns them all off, but we can select, hey google turn on Christmas will just turn on the lantern we have not put away yet from Christmas.

As to wired multi switches, that has also changed, in the old days you needed three wires from master to slave switch

shown was the standard way years ago, with two x two way and one intermediate switch, however today there are switches which only need two wires between them, and also kinetic which does not need any. The whole idea of two way switching has been turned on its head.

The problem is many smart switches will not work in the old way, the smart switch I have used for my outside light does not come as a two way version, as there is no need, pressing door bell turns on outside light, as well as the switch inside the door. Using a battery powered smart switch (TP Link or Tapo) means no neutral required, and it does not change state with a power cut, or pass any current through the bulb, so it can work an outdoor PIR lamp.

The problem is there are so many smart bulbs and all seem to have different features, so selecting which make is a problem, specially as some need a hub. In the main a mains powered device like a bulb or adaptor does not need a hub, a device battery powered or powered through the small current through bulb when off, needs a hub so it can use less power.

Down stairs in the flat used for visitors, did not want a lamp visitors could not use, so this was used, does not connect to wifi, or phone, just a simple remote control so light can be turned off/on when in bed, as long as main switch left on.

 

[SUNRAY]

Before I go any further:
Can you get a new cable to the switch? If so it would be the nicest way to do the job.

If not is there any slack in the loft for those 2 cables in order to cut them and terminate in the junction box? A word of warning - wago boxes require a lot of slack.

 

[adzyp]

Before I go any further:
Can you get a new cable to the switch? If so it would be the nicest way to do the job.

If not is there any slack in the loft for those 2 cables in order to cut them and terminate in the junction box? A word of warning - wago boxes require a lot of slack.

Im going to go up later and take a look. If I can get an extra wire in, whats the answer then in addition to a 3 gang switch? Just link up the new blue to the others and then brown into the new switch and then bridge to one of the others?

There is definitely enough slack on the cables for both lights, I guess I would need to tap into a third cable for the loop in power too?

 

[adzyp]

Before I go any further:
Can you get a new cable to the switch? If so it would be the nicest way to do the job.

If not is there any slack in the loft for those 2 cables in order to cut them and terminate in the junction box? A word of warning - wago boxes require a lot of slack.

Rather frustrating here. Up in the loft I can see down the cavity between wall and plasterboard, however in line with the wall switch and to either side is where they have dot dabbed the plaster board to the brick wall (its the newer extension side of the house).

If i could clear a path I could get a wire into the back box via one of the other openings but just not sure how doable it will be with all the plaster dabs in the way

 

[SUNRAY]

Im going to go up later and take a look. If I can get an extra wire in, whats the answer then in addition to a 3 gang switch? Just link up the new blue to the others and then brown into the new switch and then bridge to one of the others?

There is definitely enough slack on the cables for both lights, I guess I would need to tap into a third cable for the loop in power too?

No, one already is the loop-in

Can I just clarify your left hand connection at the switch in your solution diagram for the Main light please? The connection from junction box to switch is blue and brown on your diagram, I assume should be brown? and also what do I use for this wire as that's not currently connected at the switch end? Am I reusing one or do I need to feed a new one?

You currently have 2 Brown, 2 blue and 2 earth wires to this switch (2 cables) and in my solution without chasing out the wall you require 3; loop-in, main switched line & shower switched line so reusing one of the blues and adding brown sleeve (just as seen for the second gang

- in fact those are long enough that you may use half of each for your alteration if you don't have any)

 

[SUNRAY]

Rather frustrating here. Up in the loft I can see down the cavity between wall and plasterboard, however in line with the wall switch and to either side is where they have dot dabbed the plaster board to the brick wall (its the newer extension side of the house).

If i could clear a path I could get a wire into the back box via one of the other openings but just not sure how doable it will be with all the plaster dabs in the way

That is the better way if possible.

 

[adzyp]

No, one already is the loop-in

You currently have 2 Brown, 2 blue and 2 earth wires to this switch (2 cables) and in my solution without chasing out the wall you require 3; loop-in, main switched line & shower switched line so reusing one of the blues and adding brown sleeve (just as seen for the second gang View attachment 339608- in fact those are long enough that you may use half of each for your alteration if you don't have any)

Thank you.

I've got some long drill bits in the shed so going to see if i can somehow find me a way through the plaster and get a rod up into the loft. If I can't do that them I think im a bit stuck other than maybe drilling a hole in the wall to the side of the switch/plaster dabs and come in through the side.

May be that I need to go down the junction box route, which I suppose I will only understand a bit more as I actually do it. I get the 3 blues joining up in the loft (rather than inside the switch). I get the re-joining on the brown loop in and brown shower which are both already in the switch. So I guess the last bit is just joining up one of the redundant blues inside the switch to the brown from the main light

 

[Taylortwocities]

I've got some long drill bits in the shed so going to see if i can somehow find me a way through the plaster and get a rod up into the loft. If I can't do that them I think im a bit stuck other than maybe drilling a hole in the wall to the side of the switch/plaster dabs and come in through the side.

Welcome to the wonderful World of electricianing.
Solving problems like this expands your brain power and will put off the risk of dementure by a week or two.

 

[adzyp]

Welcome to the wonderful World of electricianing.
Solving problems like this expands your brain power and will put off the risk of dementure by a week or two.

I think I have to admit defeat with this method before I start butchering the wall to bits!

I cant get a cable down the existing duct because its already got the 3 wires in and is quite tight.

Above and to either side of the back box is just plaster plaster and plaster. I managed to get through one bit, put a rod up but then a foot higher I hit another blob of plaster.

I guess its back to the junction box method.

I have made a tiny bit of progress in that the main light is now disconnected from the other and I have the cable ready to use

 

[adzyp]

All done! Right next to this switch there is a separate conduit with a single wire going down, no idea where or what for! But was able to get the wire down that one and feed into the switch from the side, all good!

 

[Taylortwocities]

All done!....... all good! Does it work then?

 

[adzyp]

Yeah other than filling a small hole next to the switch its all sorted. 3 gang switch is on and all 3 lights controlled separately now