Types of Board Questions

[Traveller]

Hi All.

First of all, let me say that I am quite confused when it comes to different types of board! I don't know the difference between MDF, conti board, melamine, chipboard or whatever.

I am looking for a material which I've seen used for making cabinets except it has a white GLOSSY finish and doesn't look as cheap as the white material they use to make kitchen unit carcasses with.

Does anyone know what that material is and where I could get hold of it? I saw a cabinet at B&Q which was made from the glossy type and it was called an MDF cabinet. The thing is, when I asked for MDF at a timber merchant, they showed me a long piece of wood like a skirting board which was coated in white powdery paint!

Can anyone help??

Thanks.

 

[^woody^]

I don't know if you can buy it, it is certainly not commonly available. It will be standard chipboard or MDF with a coating.

You can acheive the same effect with spray painting and laquering the surface to get a high-gloss finish.

But for kitchen units, you probably want the real stuff for cleaning and fade/knock resistance.

For reference, melamine formica and conti-board are the same thing - chipboard with a surface coating (melamine).

Plain chipboard is lots of tiny wood chips glued and squeezed together. MDF is basically cardboard squashed together

 

[Scrit]

First of all, let me say that I am quite confused when it comes to different types of board! I don't know the difference between MDF, conti board, melamine, chipboard or whatever

As someone else stated MDF is fine wood particles and glue compressed and chipboard is shredded wood particles and glue compressed - note that neither have any form of coating. Conti-Board is a branded product made by Norboard (formerly Ahrensons) and is a form of chipboard with either a melamine facing (in which case it is what we call MFC = melamine-faced chipboard) or real wood veneer (veneered chipboard). Melamine is an American way of referring to what is called MFC here in the UK - i.e. melamine faced chipboard. This is available in a large variety of colours and wood grain patterns. Similarly MDF is also available with a melamine facing (MF-MDF = melamine-faced MDF) or veneered (veneered MDF). In general better quality mass-produced furniture uses either veneered MDF or sometimes MF-MDF whilst lower quality stuff is made using a chipboard-based material.

I am looking for a material which I've seen used for making cabinets except it has a white GLOSSY finish and doesn't look as cheap as the white material they use to make kitchen unit carcasses with.

Odds are that it is either MF-MDF or MFC in a high gloss white. Look for a sheet/board mrchant who sells Polyrey, Sonae or Finsa as all three manufacturers distribute either high-gloss MFC and/or high gloss MF-MDF in the UK. The downside is that this is in general a trade product and normally comes in what we refer to as "jumbos", i.e. 2.7 x 2.0 metre sheets. The main thickness found will be 18mm, meaning a sheet will weigh in at around 90kgs - makes them difficult to handle on your own. They also aren't cheap (typically over £50/sheet, but you do get 1.8 times the surface area of an 8 x 4 ft/2440 x 1220mm sheet). The other problem is that many of the merchants who handle this stuff don't have facilities to cut to size, but if you ring around you might well strike lucky. If you could tell us all the area you live in maybe someone will be able to put you onto a supplier in your area (in other words this is not a readily available product and is sold through local distributors not a national chain)

I saw a cabinet at B&Q which was made from the glossy type and it was called an MDF cabinet.

Typical ignorant B&Q muppet - what you should probably have been told was that it was MF-MDF

The thing is, when I asked for MDF at a timber merchant, they showed me a long piece of wood like a skirting board which was coated in white powdery paint!

Primed MDF skirting - how original! Sheet materials have a different supply chain and you need to be looking for a specialist board material supplier rather than the average timber merchant, half of whom don't know one end of a sheet of MDF from the back of a tram. Look up and ring the distributors for the three brands I gave you above and you'll be a lot nearer to finding the materials.

BTW don't let anyone confuse you between MF-MDF and MR-MDF. The MR stands for Moisture Resistant, the stuff is greenish and has no coatings.

Good luck

Scrit

 

[Jasonb]

One other option that Scrit didn't cover is pre laminated MDF or ply, this is a good quality MDF or ply with a layer of laminate pre bonded to either side ( laminate in this context would have a finish like a kitchen worktop and most people would call it formica)

I used some recently on a bar job where an easy to clean durable finish was required but not cheap at just over £70 + Vat for an 8x4 sheet. Ends up about 20mm thick as it is 18mm board plus two layers of laminate, you will need a decent power saw to cut it or trim all edges with a router.

Jason

 

[Traveller]

Thanks ^woody^, Scrit, Jasonb.

Hope I understand things better now.

For any of the types of board discussed, if I were to cut a piece of one of these boards to use to make something, I assume that I need to draw a pencil line, cut just a little before the pencil line with a jigsaw and then sand down to the pencil line with a sander?? Is that correct?

If so, any advice on cutting? I have read that down blades should be used or masking tape applied to avoid the coating to come off at the edges. Won't masking tape mess up the blades?

After cutting, how is the bare edge covered? Is this done by applying those iron on strips or is there another method? I am aware that the thicker counter tops used in kitchens either have metal strips that can be screwed on or strips in the same finish as the tops can be stuck on, but what about the thinner white-covered materials discussed above?

Which type of sander should be used? I haven't got a sander yet, so if one could be suggested which I can also use for most other light purposes/jobs, then that would be most helpful! As you can assume from my questions, I won't (or can't) be doing any 'big' jobs! Does sanding cause the coating to chip off as well? If so, how is this prevented?

What about drilling holes? Masking tape again? Again, won't that mess up the bits?

I don't know if it's relevant, but it is to be used for a unit in the bathroom. If I end up having to make it from ordinary, common, materials, would it work out cheaper to just buy a standard sized unit from B&Q or buy the materials from B&Q and make it myself? I would also like to make an undersink storage unit for a pedestal wash basin, but that's another story.

'One other option that Scrit didn't cover....'

YOU MUST BE JOKING!!

Thanks.

 

[Jasonb]

A jig saw won't give a satisfactory finish no matter how much you san it.

You either need a circular saw with a blade specifically for laminate/MFC or a table saw with similar blade. You could then edge the board straight off the saw.

The other alternative is to cut with a decent handsaw or jigsaw leaving 3-5mm from the line. You then need a router with suitable cutter and buide batten to trim to the line.

Once you have a suitable edge it can be finished with an iron on edging which can be applied with a household iron, just put a sheet of paper between the edging & iron. You will then need to trim the efging flush with a blade or sharp chisel using a shearing cut.

Drill holes with "lip & spur" drill bits no need for tape just use a fast drill speed.

As to cost you need to work out what materials and tools you will have to buy and weigh this up against a standard unit that may not exactly be what you want.

Jason

 

[Traveller]

Thanks Jason B.

 

[Traveller]

Hi again.

Managed to buy some ordinary carcasses but with glossy doors close to the sizes I wanted but still need to cut a curve in the boards. Which type of saw do I need for that?

Are these materials ok for a cabinet in the bathroom?

Thanks.

 

[Scrit]

Jigsaw. I presume you are making a visible cut to go around the basin in which case you may need to use a down cut blade to ensure that your cut edge is clean. Keep the saw pressed well down when using downcut blades.

Scrit

 

[Traveller]

Thanks Scrit, but I'm confused!

What about what JasonB said - 'A jig saw won't give a satisfactory finish no matter how much you san it. '????

About using a down cut blade, does the board need to be cut with the surface on top? Just the jigsaw or any sanding etc to go with it? Any hand (manual) tools that I can use to get more accuracy and control?

(It's for the pedestal of the basin.)

Thanks.

 

[Scrit]

The original discussion was about straight line cutting and I'm in complete agreeent with JasonB - a jigsaw will never give you a straight enough cut to make a good joint no matter how much you sand it. However, you are now talking about doing a curved cut-out and one where you will have to caulk the joint with a silicone compound, so for that the only options are a jig saw or a router with a template (for which you'll need a jigsaw or bandsaw to make the template).

The curved cut out can be done with a jigsaw, orbit action turned off and a downcut blade installed. Work from the outside of the carcass - you probably won't be able to turn the jigsaw without bumping into the sides if you cut from the inside. A downcut blade (such as the Bosch T101BR) will try to lift the jigsaw off the surface, so press down hard and go slowly. MFC (melamine-faced chipboard), which is probably what your carcasses are made from cannot be sanded as that will damage the melamine facing and and I personally doubt that anyone could do this job (better) with any hand tool.

Scrit

 

[Traveller]

Thanks Scrit.

Just to clear up, the carcass comes flat packed; it isn't made up, so I have the freedom to cut the relevant piece of board on its own without having to worry about the jigsaw not having enough room. Bearing this in mind, do I need to cut with the jigsaw placed on the surface of the board which will be on the outside of the cabinet, or the underside, which will be inside the cabinet?

What would be the best method for this job if I didn't have a downcut blade?

Thanks.

 

[Jasonb]

If you use a downcut blade cut from the outside (visible side)of the carcase.

If you use a standard blade cut from the inside of the cabinet but blade wander could mean that the opposite side is not exactly the same curve.

Jason

 

[Traveller]

Thanks JasonB.

I think I'll practice on a scrap piece of board before I do the real thing.

 

[Traveller]

JasonB, I have searched for and asked in a diy store about "lip & spur" drill bits but they haven't a clue what I'm talking about. Are they known by any other (technical) name?

And am I correct to assume that the drilling needs to be done from the outside/visible side of the wood?

Thanks.