Tyre roadnoise

[norseman]

Hi folks, though I would run this query here (rather than on a one-make forum) as a wider diversity of car owners would read it.

I have an old 5 series BMW (E39) purchased over three years ago & renewed all the tyres, as although a mixture of premium brands they were all very old, partly due to the car being in storage. Funds were low at the time so as a stopgap I opted for a set of Chinese Goodrides in the 225/60/15 which is the same (approved alterative size) as the removed tyres; both sets gave a quiet drive.
With winter approaching I opted for set of Michelin Cross Climates in the 205/65/15 size that is the standard tyre spec. for the car & immediately noticed a harsh background sound, the level of which varied with road surface quality. After 5K miles I replaced (& stored) the Michelins with Nexans but the background sound is still there.

So now (finally) to the question;
Bearing in mind that in theory the more rubber you have in contact with the road the more likely you are to experience tyre 'roar' why would (both) sets of wider section tyres give a quieter/smoother ride than the 205/65 section items?
Could it be that the reduced sidewall height of the 225's somehow contributed to this experience?

nb: I am aware that the noise rating of new tyres is based on a 'drive by' test & not directly related to the sound heard in the cabin.

Many thanks for reading.

 

[Old Salt]

It could be due to the tread pattern.

 

[JohnD]

Are the Cross Climates more nobbly?

Presumably the air pressure is lower in the wider tyres so they will be softer.

 

[Bodgedbuild]

Nexan tyres are very noisy, my car had a pair of these fitted to the front by the dealer I bought it from. When they eventually wear out, I'll bin them. I even spent time chasing what I thought was a noisy wheel bearing because of them. Rather oddly, one makes more noise than the other even though they are the same type/spec/age. Do you find the noise starts at about 60mph and goes away by 80?

 

[norseman]

Are the Cross Climates more nobbly?

Presumably the air pressure is lower in the wider tyres so they will be softer.

I wouldn't say 'nobbly' just a different pattern to cope with winter conditions, including snow.
Their noise rating is low at 69 db, but that doesn't relate to interior noise levels.

nb. According to the manuf. sticker the pressures are the same for both 205 & 225 section tyres.

 

[norseman]

Nexan tyres are very noisy, my car had a pair of these fitted to the front by the dealer I bought it from. When they eventually wear out, I'll bin them. I even spent time chasing what I thought was a noisy wheel bearing because of them. Rather oddly, one makes more noise than the other even though they are the same type/spec/age. Do you find the noise starts at about 60mph and goes away by 80?

No, the sound is present at all speeds & only goes away on a smooth tarmac road.
OK, I've accepted that it's road noise rather than a mechanical fault (I also went down the route of having wheel bearings checked out) but there remains the burning question as to why the wider (by 10mm) tyres were so much quieter

 

[Bodgedbuild]

No, the sound is present at all speeds & only goes away on a smooth tarmac road.
OK, I've accepted that it's road noise rather than a mechanical fault (I also went down the route of having wheel bearings checked out) but there remains the burning question as to why the wider (by 10mm) tyres were so much quieter

I bought a couple of alloys that are the same as mine, tyres were nearly bald but branded. I fitted them and the difference was night and day, instantly quiet. I'm not too bothered now I know it's just tyres so I put the (new) old ones back on.
I think fitting wider tyres can make it quieter simply because the tyre walls are not vertical to the rim beads btw.

 

[Avocet]

Decent tyres in 15" are getting harder to find these days! I have this problem on my old Alfa. I think, the received wisdom, is that tyre noise is largely down to tread blocks and gets quieter as the tyres wear. Going back 30 years, when I used to work with "sporty" tyres, Bridgestone developed the "Expedia" tyre, which they were hoping to push as a low noise tyre, but actually (almost by accident) found they were incredibly good at stopping in the wet, so they pushed that instead. However, the thing they (and other people have done on lots of other tyres) had done is have the tread blocks of slightly different sizes around the perimeter of the tyre, so that it doesn't have any single natural frequency. That seems to help. In general, I think wider tyres = more noise, but that's subjective on my part. Obviously, you know about the standard EU noise rating system for tyres, so I think it's just a case of pick one with a relatively low value and hope that it's out-of-phase with whatever resonates to transmit the noise into the vehicle structure?

 

[norseman]

Decent tyres in 15" are getting harder to find these days! I have this problem on my old Alfa. I think, the received wisdom, is that tyre noise is largely down to tread blocks and gets quieter as the tyres wear. Going back 30 years, when I used to work with "sporty" tyres, Bridgestone developed the "Expedia" tyre, which they were hoping to push as a low noise tyre, but actually (almost by accident) found they were incredibly good at stopping in the wet, so they pushed that instead. However, the thing they (and other people have done on lots of other tyres) had done is have the tread blocks of slightly different sizes around the perimeter of the tyre, so that it doesn't have any single natural frequency. That seems to help. In general, I think wider tyres = more noise, but that's subjective on my part. Obviously, you know about the standard EU noise rating system for tyres, so I think it's just a case of pick one with a relatively low value and hope that it's out-of-phase with whatever resonates to transmit the noise into the vehicle structure?

Thanks for that.
When the time comes to replace the tyres I'm leaning towards Uniroyal at the moment & I'd prefer to stick to the standard 205 fitment. I'm going to await the winter weather though as should we get a bad one this year I can always fall back on the Cross Climates I've got stored.

I bought a couple of alloys that are the same as mine, tyres were nearly bald but branded. I fitted them and the difference was night and day, instantly quiet. I'm not too bothered now I know it's just tyres so I put the (new) old ones back on.
I think fitting wider tyres can make it quieter simply because the tyre walls are not vertical to the rim beads btw.

I hadn't thought of that, I wonder
Anyone else got an opinion?

 

[Burnerman]

I think the tyre noise is completely due to the tread pattern......cross climates have coarser treads to expel water and snow. Some brands will track on white lines more than others too.
My findings? Worst for noise, Maxxis and Nexen - best, Goodyear and Hankook. All based on a standard tread pattern.
John

 

[foxhole]

I don’t listen to Tyre noise, I prefer the radio

 

[JohnD]

I think the tyre noise is completely due to the tread pattern......cross climates have coarser treads to expel water and snow. Some brands will track on white lines more than others too.
My findings? Worst for noise, Maxxis and Nexen - best, Goodyear and Hankook. All based on a standard tread pattern.
John

I've used Michelin Pilot Supersports (the name varies) on several cars, and they have always been noticeably quieter than whatever was there before.

They don't have a chunky tread and are not ideal for places that have cold winters, but I find them otherwise excellent.

 

[norseman]

I don’t listen to Tyre noise, I prefer the radio

For me it's the exhaust note of my old V8
nb. not the car referred to here, that has a nice straight 6 growl.

 

[JohnD]

(I have a spare set of wheels for winter tyres, but haven't used them.

Winter tyres are better, in winter, than cross climates)

 

[norseman]

Winter tyres are better, in winter, than cross climates)

I don't doubt it, though when was the last time the south of the UK had a real winter? If we do then I'm confident the Michelins will suffice.
On the same subject, people bang on about the lack of traction from a RWD car, but I've had front-drive models that are useless in snow.