Unsupported upstairs wall - surveyor or engineer

[paulg1]

I've been in my 1930s semi for a couple of years. I've recently noticed that one of my upstairs walls is solid (blockwork I presume) and not supported by a corresponding wall below. I also noticed that the door frames in this upstairs wall are heavily distorted. There is a sag/creep of several centimetres over a meter or two. The door itself has been modified to fit the distorted frame so I'm confident this hasn't changed recently.

Apparently, these unsupported block walls are quite common for houses of this period, but I'm still a bit uncomfortable with how much it seems to have sagged and the fact that nothing was mentioned on our pre-purchase structural survey.

I'm very confident that the wall was originally built this way rather than a load bearing wall knocked out underneath: The neighbouring houses all have the same design and the supporting joist must be built into a chimney breast in the middle of a living room.

Anyway, I'm sure it's likely to be fine but I think I'd like to get someone to look at it and confirm that it is sound. (My baby sleeps in a cot next to the wall and I worry!).

Is that something I would really need a structural engineer for or should I get another building surveyor in? I'm a little miffed that my prepurchase surveyor went into detail on cosmetic stuff and neglected to highlight some major structural movement.

 

[Doggit]

Just what sort of surveyor were they. If it was a valuation, then get a structural surveyor, but if it was a structural surveyor, then contact them and ask their opinion, and get them back to check over it to see if they've missed something.

The joist ends could be going, or there may have been movement in the property at some stage. Being a 30s property, there could have been a bomb dropped nearby, so it's worth talking to the neighbours, and asking if you can have a look at a couple of places to see if you can spot anything obvious.

If push comes to shove, it might be worth putting a beam in to stabilise things; then you might need a structural engineer.

 

[vinn]

If possible lift a board from the upstairs flooring, and examine the joists that appear to be trimmed around a hearth & chimney breast.
The trimming joists and the trimmer should be double - so should any joist directly under the wall.
No joist tail should be seated in the chimney breast.

Take a long level or a level and a straight edge, and put it to the ceiling below the block wall.

What, if anything, is above the block wall in the loft?

Why not post a pic showing the length of the living room?

 

[^woody^]

30's houses generally had the upper walls built off the floors. The floor joists tend to be OK in terms of load, but they do deflect over time, leading to distorted door frames.

Of late, there is a tendency for building surveyors not to want, or not be able to comment on structural matters, so there are a lot of crap reports nowadays from surveyors. So for purely structural issues, always instruct a structural engineer.

 

[^woody^]

could have been a bomb dropped nearby, so it's worth talking to the neighbours, and asking if you can have a look at a couple of places to see if you can spot anything obvious

Yeah, obvious things are a big crater in the garden and shrapnel in the walls.

 

[Doggit]

Sorry Woody, I meant obvious differences in the layout of the neighbours houses. Stands to reason that the crater would have been filled in by now, and the shrapnel would have been filched for scrap.

 

[paulg1]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry for taking my time to respond - I've had guests.

I've added some pictures below. The blue line is where the upstairs wall runs, the red lines are where the doorways above would be. Using a level and a straightedge on the ceiling the blue line is actually pretty level, it's just the red bit under the doors that bends upwards

I also added a picture of one of the doorways upstairs (Don't blame me for the architraving!)

I can't easily look at the joists (the bedrooms upstairs have finished wood floors and the ceiling below is plastered).

Incidentally, when I said the joists must run into the chimney breast that was because I was assuming that the joists would run across the short span of the rectangular room. I don't really know that for sure. For all I know they run front to back over 5 metres.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

How sure are you it's a solid wall and not a stud + lath and plaster? If block it's possible it has an RSJ underneath, which would also allow the joists to run length ways (my house does this).