Updating a CH System: Replacing the Boiler

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I have an open vent, Y-plan system that was originally installed in my 3 bed semi in the late seventies. When I moved in some of the radiators barely functioned so I cleaned out the system chemically and added corrosion inhibitor when I refilled it. Later I replaced the valves with TRVs (and hence changed the circulant several times before refilling with inhibitor), replaced the worn out diverter head, and replaced the programmer. The system has been working reasonably well for several years now, but the ancient copper core Corvec Maxiflame is showing its age and I would like to replace it with a functionally similar boiler. Having seen for myself what a weak acid does to aluminium, I would like a boiler with a stainless steel heat exchanger. After some research I had narrowed down my choices to Alpha CD13R, Vaillant ecoTEC plus 415, and Viessmann Vitodens 100W.

I then phoned the plumber who fitted the (open vent, Y-plan) central heating in my last house. He came recommended, and indeed did a very neat job of installing a system which incurred no major repair costs in the ten or fifteen years I lived with the system. He told me that whilst he would be happy to fit a Vaillant, he had had problems with after sales service and his personal boiler of choice was Halstead. He also told me that he did not have the kit to power flush the system (because it was expensive), and warned me that in his experience power flushing was expensive (£600 - £700) and could cause more problems than it solved unless the system was bad enough that a strong magnet would stick to the copper pipes. He suggested a magnetic filter as an alternative, though he's not convinced it would be needed. This is contrary to the advice given on this forum, but I have to say that the Corvec has been working for thirty years now despite a serious sludge problem at one point and no service record. Is it just system boilers and combis that are sensitive to a bit of residual muck? On the other hand, Halstead appears to have a really bad reputation, so I don't know what to believe any more. Maybe it's just the Halstead combis that are bad...

Can anyone help point me in the right direction, please? What is your opinion of these various boilers? The main problem I have at the moment is the Corvec really needs the pump to be at 3, but for reasons I've not been able to figure out this results in air entrainment when the diverter swings from CH towards HW, so I would like to operate at 2 as this solves that problem.

The circulant runs clear, but when I take a rad off the wall for decorating I'll usually find a bit of sludge in it (ie flushing it with the hose pipe will result in some black water). Do I really need to spend £600 on a power flush, or would the magnetic filter be a more pragmatic option (perhaps with another chemical clean)?
 
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You seem handy enough so just stick in appropriate chemicals then flush it through and take rads off the wall and hose them out this will get everything out of them.
As for boilers everyone will give you a different answer
 
As for dirt in your system if there was a lot the corvec would be banging away and thermal link would probably melt dropping the pilot out
 
Thanks. That sounds like a sensible compromise.

The Corvec runs very quietly, most of the noise coming from the need to pump the water round at the maximum flow rate. I did read on one post that the Vaillant requires a high flow rate, but I suspect the reason the Corvec is unable to modulate the flame height over a sensible range on speed 2 is because it is over-rated. So I understand that boiler choice is partly a matter of opinion, but it would be nice to know in advance if the Alpha would be happier on speed 2 than the Vaillant.
 
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The main advantage of powerflushing is the possibility of using strong chemicals that can only stay in the system for a short period of time; perfectly fine to use on anything apart from boilers with aluminum hex.

Vailant make a good boiler, but is indeed atrocious when it comes to aftersales; they never reply to letters or emails, the "helpline" takes on average between half an hour and an hour before you speak to someone. And to add insult to injury, it is a premium rate number.
I have come to a point that I don't even consider installing their product, and unless the client has the manuals, or I have a copy myself, I don't service or repair them either.

Halstead makes nothing but junk these days, Alpha is only marginally better.

If stainless steel heat exchangers do it for you, Viessmann is your brand; better than the Vailant by quite a margin.
Personally, I think the advantage of stainless steel is not that relevant, I have only seen cast iron ones that rotted through, never a ally one.
 
Oh splendid. I am a little wary of Viessmann, as I've seen quite a few grumbles about their customer service on this forum. Does anyone actually make a reasonably reliable product but will respond when there are problems?

We wont know for a few years yet how well aluminium fares in a condensing boiler. However, I do know that if you apply a weak acid (the condensate) to aluminium, the aluminium dissolves very rapidly once the acid breaks through the protective oxide layer. AFAIK cast iron is not used in a boiler that is intended to condense, but it is possible for such a boiler to operate in condensing mode and then the cast iron will be attacked.
 
Scandinavia, Germany etc have been using condensing technology for at least 25 years, my wm/drier 25+ years is condensing, and every single one is Stainless steel.
Using aluminum is pathetic, and fortunately not many use it.
 
I'm glad you said that, doitall, as I thought it was the case, but I wasn't sure. Vaillant and Viessmann are both German, of course.
 
DIA domestic condensing boilers have been avialable in the UK for around 25 years to
 
I am a little concerned about your "plumber" !

Whilst he knows a Vaillant have prro after sales service they are still reliable boilers and so thats not so important.

Few other installers would recommend a Halstead although the Band A is not really that bad.

Most would prefer a vaillant, Viessmann or a Biasi.

As for power flushing thats only 3-5 hours work and about £40 of chemicals.

If your plumber does not have a power flushing pump ( £400-£900 ) then all I can say is that he is not seriously into heating work!

Tony
 
You have to make you mind up but I would suggest you ask some other local installers!

Make sure they are gas registered ! I am wondering if yours is !

Tony
 
The heat exchanger in the Viessmann 100 is a coil of stainless tube, I imagine it is not prone to dirt settling in it as it has no nooks and crannies and the water squirts through it quite fast (I have one)

however as you have an old system I would strongly recommend getting a Magnaclean fitted. Best to fit it before installing the new boiler, then it can catch any loose stuff before the boiler goes in, and will continue afterwards. I guarantee you will be amazed and delighted to see how much black sediment it collects from your old system. Run it with Sentinel X400 for 4 weeks before changing the boiler, to loosen the existing sediment. The sediment helps wear out moving parts like pump and valves, as it is a fine abrasive. Hosing the rads through in the garden is very effective, but do it after the X400 has loosened it.

I am not a pro but have done all this.
 
Agile
And why would he need a powerflush machine to be seriously into heating .
Some people live in areas where people actually know how to install heating properly unlike as the news suggested this morning that London is full of unregistered cowboys .
 
Yet another Stealth tax that lines the pockets of installers.

Ok some old systems need it, but there's no reason that a new system does, if it's installed by an proper plumber/heating engineer.
 

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