I think he has tried a lot
Upstairs light circuit all down - MCB not tripped
- Thread starter azibux1
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My time has been wasted on more than one occasion when trying to fault find because the client has withheld important information. Just tell me and I'll get right on repairing the fault! Often because they are guilty of causing the problem and think they will somehow get away without paying or something.
Quite - such as people who claim something or other just stopped working, and when investigated, the fault is something like switches wired incorrectly which must either have been like it for years, or someone tampered with it on the previous day.
Other gems include 'my oven doesn't work any more' because the power went off and they haven't set the clock which was flashing away on the front panel.
Or kitchen appliances not working because a switch above the worktop was pressed accidentally with something else like a microwave.
And a socket which was claimed to have stopped working recently - and when opened, had no wiring connected to it at all and clearly hadn't had for many years based on the thick layers of dust and dirt inside.
Other gems include 'my oven doesn't work any more' because the power went off and they haven't set the clock which was flashing away on the front panel.
Or kitchen appliances not working because a switch above the worktop was pressed accidentally with something else like a microwave.
And a socket which was claimed to have stopped working recently - and when opened, had no wiring connected to it at all and clearly hadn't had for many years based on the thick layers of dust and dirt inside.
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Well, the circuit is the first floor, so the first light on the circuit may not necessarily be the closest to the board.
However, going back to what I have already said, if you have no voltage at the bathroom JB, the issue looks like it will be somewhere between the board and the bathroom.Just need to logically go round all JB's and roses and check for loose connections. If everything looks sound at the terminations, then there may be cable damage in between the wiring points.
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I wasn't going to answer that, as there's no good reason for this thread to diverge into an off-topic argument, but I don't like ignoring questions.
So I'll explain my reasoning - you can agree, or not, but I'm unlikely to cooperate in any off-topic diversion.
Azibux wrote this:
i.e. he said that they chose parallel wiring as they didn't want to lose all of the lights if one blew, implying that they thought series wiring was an option, and could be done as long as you didn't mind losing all the lights if one failed. To say "we wired them in parallel so in case one blew, the rest would work" shows zero appreciation of the fact that if you don't wire them in parallel none of them will work, or will work well, in the first place because none of them will be getting the right voltage.
So as he had also said he was "fairly competent with these jobs", I though that if he really did believe that there was an actual choice between series and parallel, and that ones degree of tolerance of losing lots of lights if one failed was a criterion for choosing which to use, then his claim to competence deserved to be challenged.
If you really think that someone saying that they wired lights in parallel rather than series for the reason that they wouldn't lose all of them if one failed demonstrated perfect logic than I fear that you too don't know what you are talking about.
So an update
Across neutral and earth has 240v (should be 0v I believe)
Across neutral and live has 0v (should be 240v but it isn't as both wires are 'hot' so circuit can't complete)
Across live and earth has 240v (expected)
The above was checked and was the same for 5 lights. Two in the middle of the house, two at one end and one at the other end of the house.
Also with everyone downstairs (no movement upstairs) - once the MCB was turned on and tripped within about 30 seconds - other times in the past it has taken 10 minutes or so... So really does seem a bit random.
Bit stumped and probably wasting a bit of time crawling about in the loft without knowing 100% what to be checking where.
Got another electrician coming round tonight (depending on heat, as the loft really is almost unbearable). He said providing it isn't too hot during the day he'll come round in the evening.
Appreciate all the assistance, I'll be sure to post back with the result of what solved it once we know!
Across neutral and earth has 240v (should be 0v I believe)
Across neutral and live has 0v (should be 240v but it isn't as both wires are 'hot' so circuit can't complete)
Across live and earth has 240v (expected)
The above was checked and was the same for 5 lights. Two in the middle of the house, two at one end and one at the other end of the house.
Also with everyone downstairs (no movement upstairs) - once the MCB was turned on and tripped within about 30 seconds - other times in the past it has taken 10 minutes or so... So really does seem a bit random.
Bit stumped and probably wasting a bit of time crawling about in the loft without knowing 100% what to be checking where.
Got another electrician coming round tonight (depending on heat, as the loft really is almost unbearable). He said providing it isn't too hot during the day he'll come round in the evening.
Appreciate all the assistance, I'll be sure to post back with the result of what solved it once we know!
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I have had all sorts.
Like the 3 gang switch which "has been in since we moved in and we've never touched it" but when investigated proved to be wired up completely wrongly....
Like the lighting circuit that went off but there were no short circuits and the supply leaving the board was A1. It turned out (God knows why) to be a switch hidden behind a wall hanging that when turned off, opened the supply to the rest of the circuit.
Wonder if there is something like that with azi's circuit?
Like the 3 gang switch which "has been in since we moved in and we've never touched it" but when investigated proved to be wired up completely wrongly....
Like the lighting circuit that went off but there were no short circuits and the supply leaving the board was A1. It turned out (God knows why) to be a switch hidden behind a wall hanging that when turned off, opened the supply to the rest of the circuit.
Wonder if there is something like that with azi's circuit?
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Yes, it looks like you have an open circuit on the neutral.
That is what you will see if the neutral is missing.
If you think about it, if the light switches are turned on, then 230volts will be presented to the lamp and then will travel back onto the neutral connection. If the neutral is not there then you'll see 230volts between earth and the neutral.
The 230volts should disappear if you turn off the light switch.
Also novolts between L&N shows you have a missing neutral, assuming you read 230volts between L and E at that point.
Good luck up in that loft. Forecast is only 33°C today…
Which was quite well demonstrated by the screwdriver.
The L&N and L&E readings were taken within seconds of each other - so seems we do indeed have a missing neutral. I did not test it by flicking the switch the other way, but 2 out of the 5 tested were off to the best of my knowledge (switches are fitted the correct way and were 'off') - can't say 100% for the others as one was the upside down switch, one is a pull cord and one is the electronic switch so not sure which way it fails when not powered (open or closed).
Hmmm will see what the guy says if he's coming today
Does seem the screwdriver was correct, yup!
Too well hidden to see without going and lifting up each bit. I only 'traced' for a few feet to get a general idea of where they were going for the bathroom lights
That's a shame, you really want to find the first point on the circuit to test.
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