Upstairs toilet uses a macerator, want it plumbed properly

[curvy1977]

Hi, first post so be gentle!

I bought a house a few months ago, a Victorian terrace with a downstairs bathroom at the back of the house. Upstairs, the previous owners have installed a toilet and sink into a cupboard, but it uses a macerator. The toilet is incredibly smelly (flushing means a dash to get out and close the door before the smell comes back up the sinkhole) and it's only used for liquid waste - tissue goes in a bin.

I need to get a lodger in in order to fund my renovation to the house but think that I'd really like to get the upstairs toilet working for their sake and also because I need to re-carpet the bedrooms but don't want to if I need the carpet lifted straight away.

I'd therefore like to get the toilet plumbed in properly but have no idea what sort of costs I'd be looking at. I appreciate that without seeing the job, nobody can accurately guestimate it, but would I be talking thousands, or hundreds? I'm happy to get someone in to quote via ratedpeople but I don't want to waste anyone's time if it's way out of my league and I need to estimate a cost when I post for a job.

The bathroom is off a hallway with about a 4 foot stretch towards the back bedroom and the bathroom would be on the outer (far) wall of the back bedroom. It's got the original floors, so all wooden and I'm guessing that there'll be a lot of work to run the pipework underneath them!

I'm sorry if this is an insane question, but I know absolutely nothing about DIY. I've come out of a 10 year marriage with a man who did all of our DIY and had a fair idea of what would be involved or what to ask for if we needed to get someone in. I'm afraid that I'm clueless, though I do know that this house has been a bodger's paradise.

 

[cantaloup63]

Must admit that I'm finding it difficult to picture the layout. A few photos and/or floorplan would prove invaluable.

With regard to the odours, it sounds as though the sink needs some attention if it is coming up throught the plughole. What it above this room? - if it's a loft then an extractor fan may well be the easiest and cheapest option.

A macerator should be able to cope with solid materials and tissue

 

[HERTS P&D]

Sounds like the sink doesn't have a trap on it.

As for cost, I suspect the previous owners wanted it fitted with a 4" soil/waste pipe but the cost and upheaval would of being too much. But now you are doing renovation work then you will need to get some quotes in.

Try and use tradesmen that are recommended to you.

Andy

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Water supply to toilet isn't much of an issue, its the drainage that is the problem. Basically you'll need to look at running a 110mm pipe from the proposed toilet position to the nearest suitable point to connect to the sewer. This pipe is unlikely to fit under the floor so will either need to be surface run (ugly) or preferably go virtually straight through the outside wall (into your garden, cant fit a stack on someone else's property unless they agree!).

Do you have a gulley for the kitchen sink (or even better a manhole) in the garden? Getting some idea of where the existing sewers are in relation to where the stack/toilet is to be located will help. Obviously the more work involved in putting in the drainage the higher the cost. This work is also notifiable to Building Control at the Council, there will be a charge involved there too.

 

[curvy1977]

Thank you for all of your replies. Apologies for not replying sooner, but things are a little hectic

Must admit that I'm finding it difficult to picture the layout. A few photos and/or floorplan would prove invaluable.

With regard to the odours, it sounds as though the sink needs some attention if it is coming up throught the plughole. What it above this room? - if it's a loft then an extractor fan may well be the easiest and cheapest option.

A macerator should be able to cope with solid materials and tissue

I've done a basic floorplan of the first floor and to the right given an idea where the sewer/bathroom are.

http://pl.an/enn7au#details

There is a loft above the loo, so good shout. Whilst the macerator has cleared the waste from the bowl, the smell is what made me think it didn't dispose of it from the unit. I haven't tried again after that first time as the very thought of the smell coming from it for days afterwards makes me gag, and that happened in May/June time!

 

[curvy1977]

Sounds like the sink doesn't have a trap on it.

As for cost, I suspect the previous owners wanted it fitted with a 4" soil/waste pipe but the cost and upheaval would of being too much. But now you are doing renovation work then you will need to get some quotes in.

Try and use tradesmen that are recommended to you.

Andy

Cheers. The owners appear to have taken the path of least and cheapest resistance in everything (new socket meant a hole drilled through a wall and an extension lead run to it as an example).

No trap, so that would be a relatively easy solution to the smell. But yes, I'll have to get it looked at properly in order to sort it properly.

 

[curvy1977]

Water supply to toilet isn't much of an issue, its the drainage that is the problem. Basically you'll need to look at running a 110mm pipe from the proposed toilet position to the nearest suitable point to connect to the sewer. This pipe is unlikely to fit under the floor so will either need to be surface run (ugly) or preferably go virtually straight through the outside wall (into your garden, cant fit a stack on someone else's property unless they agree!).

Do you have a gulley for the kitchen sink (or even better a manhole) in the garden? Getting some idea of where the existing sewers are in relation to where the stack/toilet is to be located will help. Obviously the more work involved in putting in the drainage the higher the cost. This work is also notifiable to Building Control at the Council, there will be a charge involved there too.

Hi, there is a gully for the kitchen sink and a manhole just outside the bathroom.

This is a terraced house, so that toilet is stuck right in the middle and against a party wall with the neighbour meaning an external pipe is not possible and an internal one wouldn't be practical. Looks like I may have to make do and mend but sticking a trap on the sink and an extractor if necessary. It still annoys me though.

As for building control - yikes. Had fun when doing an extension a few years ago which was near enough to the sewer to demand the water board's intervention (but they forgot about the post-works inspection of the sewer before signing off on building control luckily

 

[flameport]

Looks like I may have to make do and mend but sticking a trap on the sink and an extractor if necessary. It still annoys me though.

As for building control - yikes.

The installation of the toilet by the previous owners was also notifiable - seems obvious that they did not bother.
An extractor is required in that room, as it has no window or other ventilation.

From the plan, there is no obvious route for the waste pipe, so doing it properly will be costly.

The sink waste should be connected into the inlet of the macerator in the same way that the toilet is - so the macerator should run when the sink is used. If not - then very nasty problems are inevitable.
Where does the outlet from the macerator go? - to a foul drain hopefully, and not just a hopper or rainwater gully outside!

 

[curvy1977]

That does not surprise me in the slightest.

The macerator does indeed run when water from the sink empties into it.

The pipe from the macerator runs into the ground next to the manhole.

Costly is not an option right now as I need to fix the smell issue in order to make it less offensive for the next lodger as a starting point as the lodger will then pay for subsequent fixes.

I bought this house out of sheer desperation and it's a case of "buy in haste, repent at leisure" but at least once I fix everything, it'll be a really nice house

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Just an idea, have seen it done. My house is virtually same layout, developer bought a neighbouring property and put upstairs W.C. in whilst keep 3 bedrooms.

Take W.C. out of the cupboard, (could fit shower instead). Pinch a bit of the middle bedroom, (against partition wall of master bedroom), enough to get a W.C. and small handbasin to fit in. 110mm waste from W.C. may be able to go under the floor (if joists run the right way) or box it in against wall. 110mm can then exit via rear wall, into stack and to the drain.

Leaves a smaller 'guest' room but gives benefit of W.C. upstairs without the dreaded macerator.....

 

[curvy1977]

It's a good idea and one I've considered since all 3 bedrooms are double bedrooms (the master is over 16ft long!) I know downstairs bathrooms are fine, but I'd really much prefer one or at least a shower room upstairs. Ironically, before my boiler broke, I was about to strip the original plaster off the walls of that room before getting a plasterer in to plaster it all so this would be the perfect time to do it, but money is an issue!

The ideal would be to turn that into a box room, do as you suggested though I'd steal a little from the master bedroom and have a door from the master bedroom into it as well to make it a use-able en-suite shower room. But the dividing wall is a supporting wall, making that a more expensive exercise.

It's rather frustrating knowing what I'd like to do, but not having the funds to do much more than fix the things that desperately need fixing.

 

[big-all]

could the trap have in the sink have evaporated ??

how long was the property empty before you used the toilet with the poo blender ??

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I've been here 12 years last month, and still got loads left to do! Place hadn't been touched since the 60's! I couldn't do without the upstairs W.C., its a long way to go otherwise, especially at 3 a.m. on a winters night after an evening in the pub.....

If you've enough room put an ensuite in the corner of the master bedroom, (for yourself) and then the W.C. in the 'new' bathroom (for the lodger!). Avoids major work to a structural wall, both W.C.'s can go into the one soil pipe.

Know all to well about the cashflow! When I had time a couple of years back I was skint, now i'm earning good money but working 60-70 hours a week and haven't got the energy to do much else after that! Good luch with stripping the plaster, if you haven't done it before it is a filthy task....

 

[curvy1977]

12 years! Sounds like a true labour of love.

I think I wouldn't be in so much of a rush to get this one sorted if I hadn't come from a house which started in a similar state but the ex and I renovated in 5 years so that it was absolutely frickin perfect. 2 bed small Vic terrace (large upstairs bathroom) which we extended, put a 13 ft galley kitchen in (complete with skylight), re-plastered throughout, new bathroom (underfloor heating *sigh*), new pine doors, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, whilst we did a lot ourselves, I was the painter and general dogsbody so don't know a lot about the actual DIY (even if the overall plans for the kitchen extension and bathroom renovation were my ideas).

If only I'd known that 4 bed dream detached we moved up to just over a year ago was intended for his preggers mistress!!!

 

[curvy1977]

could the trap have in the sink have evaporated ??

how long was the property empty before you used the toilet with the poo blender ??

Evaporated? Pardon me?

It was empty for a month only.