Urgent roof advice needed

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Hampshire
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This is my roof so far.Its pretty basic.

My archtects drawings dont explain a lot,only the steel and rafter size.

The roofer said that i should keep it open inside the roof (as there was so much space)and in order for him to do this he would put vertical hangers down all around 1 metre up the rafters.(it wont be lived in)

The span from left to right was 6.5m so he ran the joists the other way!(from front to back).Its now a 4m span, but there is nothing to stop my walls spreading. :eek:

To solve this problem AND to make the roof strong am i right in suggesting binders, ridge collar, and the roofers idea vertical hangers will sort it?. ;)

How often should the binders ,ridge collars and vertical hangers be fixed?

Ill fix purlins as well - 5x2" ok?

Also should niggins be fitted by the roofer to aid the plasterer?

Thanks for your advice ;)
 
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Hangers or purlins/collars wont help at all

You need to ensure that the roof is restrained at the eaves to prevent the walls being pushed out.

As it stands the ceiling joists are runing the wrong way and not doing any restraining
 
Hangers or purlins/collars wont help at all

You need to ensure that the roof is restrained at the eaves to prevent the walls being pushed out.

As it stands the ceiling joists are runing the wrong way and not doing any restraining

OM Woody , i get that , but would binders running across the joists and attached the rafters at the eaves help.?

Would noggins running between the joists help , then attached to the rafters at the eaves and plate?
 
Was the roof designed with purlins. If so a size should have been specified and I would guess something substantially bigger than 5x2.
Also, the purlins will put extra load on the hips which would need to be capable of taking the extra load...
If the rafters have been designed to span the distance then you don't need purlins...

As for the spreading issue, you could use twisted restraint straps screwed or nailed into the rafters and the first three joists, with noggins underneath. Then screw some ply over the joists so it all acts as a diaphragm...won't go anywhere then...

Also make sure your hip members are restrained.
 
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Raygun , thanks for the reply.

Ive had a local quality builder / carpenter up today and he's recommended the following.

8x2 purlins with angled struts down to 8x2 collars every 4th rafter. All M10 bolted with dogs in the joints.

I spoke with my roofer to give him this guidence and he stated that hed do this if we wanted but if it was left to him hed just run struts from the rafters down to doubled up celing joists as well as having two hangers off the ridge.

My roofer did his own thing and didnt follow the plans. Im just not sure his above plan is strong enough. Ill visit the architect tom and get his advice.

This is the first time ive had a trademan involved in this project .....and its the first time ive been FU**ed OFF. The saying is true. "People are a problem." :evil:
 
IMO, the blame lies at the designers desk.

His poor/incomplete drawing has left it for the carpenter to do his own thing ... and if you got 10 different carpenters there, then you would have 10 different solutions.

The whole point of a drawing is for it to be followed, not guessed about how to build the roof.

Roll the drawing up and hit the designer with it ... end on as it hurts more
 
IMO, the blame lies at the designers desk.

His poor/incomplete drawing has left it for the carpenter to do his own thing ... and if you got 10 different carpenters there, then you would have 10 different solutions.

The whole point of a drawing is for it to be followed, not guessed about how to build the roof.

Roll the drawing up and hit the designer with it ... end on as it hurts more

Woody , i hate to say it but
"My roofer did his own thing and didnt follow the plans."
:evil: :rolleyes:
 
Your first post says ..... "My archtects drawings dont explain a lot, only the steel and rafter size", so what was the roofer to do?
 
hmmm, yes i see your problem.

You say you have a roofer constructing this roof for you.

Well you now know where where you have ****ed up, hope this helps ;)
 
It is shame that you have finished up in this situation, as the roof is, or should I say was, so simple to design and pitch.
From the photo, it would appear that the chippy has carried out a reasonable standard of workmanship, but unfortunately like so many competent carpenters he has not had the experience, nor does he understand the principles of cut roofs, consequently you have been left with roof geometry that is not designed to form a coherent structure due to lack of triangulation to counter lateral thrust and creep.
It is difficult to estimate sizes from a photo, but why the steel has been put in that position beggers belief, as it is serving no purpose what so ever. The steel should have run from front to back directly below the ridge and supported on the partition wall. Steel could have been cut and spliced if required. Timber baulks 50 by whatever the internal depth of steel is bolted to each side of steel and ceiling joists fixed with adjustable strap timber to timber joist hangers coupled with fixing band. Or do away with fixing band and fix strong backs over top of steel. Either way it would have made a continues joist and formed your triangulation. The steel would have also provided support for angular struts should wrap round purlin be required.
Either 1/3 and 2/3 or ¼ and ½ span, double joists bolted with bulldogs 50mm deeper than standard joists to take binders. Binders made up to strong back principal so that they are sitting on above mentioned doubles. Triangulation of crown rafter and hip jacks could be achieved by stub joists.
You state that left to right the span is 6500, this would give a half span of 3250 . The pitch looks to be as near to 35 degrees as I can judge from photo. This would mean rise of 2276 and a hypotenuse of 3968.
This being the case ceiling joists should be C24 47x150 at 400 centres. Can not give you binders, as do not know length front to back. Rafters C24 50x 150 at 400 centres will give you a rafter run of 3910 without purlins, and as your run will be 3968 you would be right on bread line.
Quote.
had a local quality builder / carpenter up today and he's recommended the following.
8x2 purlins with angled struts down to 8x2 collars every 4th rafter. All M10 bolted with dogs in the joints. End of quote.

This would be one way to help out, but with out major alterations there is no where to support angled struts, and with out supports all the purlins will be doing is increasing the loading.
Quote.
spoke with my roofer to give him this guidence and he stated that hed do this if we wanted but if it was left to him hed just run struts from the rafters down to doubled up celing joists as well as having two hangers off the ridge. End of quote.

This would be a complete waste of time and money.
Mention couple of other points. Would appear hip rafters are same size as commons and jacks. We would have used 50x200 as hip rafters, as they should be in the region of 5130 based on 6500 span and 35 pitch. Difficult to see, but has he put dragons ties in corners. You will have to cut large angled crop of ends of steel to get below rafter line. Some one is going to have fun and games running round the angled I beam that has not yet been roofed in.
I know that everything I have said is far from being helpful, but at least you have been told before you put the lid on and she starts to creep.
See if your architect can give you a solution, if not and you are still worried, then come back and will tell you what we would do, but be warned it will be expensive.
oldun
 
Old un thanks for all the effort youve gone to in writing that post.

I spoke with my architect this morning.

He has stated that the following is fine

Collars every 3rd rafter -M12 bolts and dogs to rafters
1 central hanger from the ridge to the steel with cross beam to rafters.
1 central hanger from the ridge to the top of the internal wall with cross beam to rafters.

His reason for the steel being there is to take the weight of the ridge(with the above hanger) because of the curved corner

No purlins or other hangers / structure required

The collars will stop it speading and the 7" rafters will take the load (thats his theory)

Im going with this and may God have mercy on me :confused:
 
I can't see how that corner is going to work. :confused:

Am i looking at three regular hips with the fourth being on a curve and not on the same plane/pitch as the others?
 
Nor me, gasgas249uk can you scan the drawing for us to see?
 
I can't see how that corner is going to work. :confused:

Perhaps to drop a hip down to each point where the curve changes direction, and then infill between these - but this may involve either a wider soffit overhang or deeper fascia around the curved section
 

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