Using a trimmer/router

[Deleted member 174758]

Ok. So basically take fence off and free hand the hinge recess?!

Yes, for one offs. You obviously need to transfer the positions of the honges from the original casing/lining/frame, and for that 3 no. Winbags (or the Chinese copies of them) and some 3mm packers are invaluable.

And do u recommend a jog other than Trend?

There isn't really much of an alternative to the Trend in the UK market since Bosch withdrew their product a number of years back and for multiple same size doors in new installs they are pretty good, however they have their down sides: they won't handle short or exceptionally tall doors without modification, they absolutely must be used with a plunge router(which requires a 12mm diameter cutter and a 16mm guide bush), they (in common with any long, fixed jig) don't cope well with warped doors or warped casings/linings/frames and finally they don't lend themselves to doing half a job such as transferring hinge positions from, say, an existing door casing to a new door, especially if the top or bottom hinges are not in the limited range of adjustment of the jig. There are alternatives such as the Virutex hinge jigs or hinge routers which if anything are more versatile (partly because they can accommodate hinge templates for odd shaped hinges) - but these alternatives are far more costly.

BTW my experience of Trend jigs has been with the older design "industrial", aluminium body versions, both 2-piece and single piece. I have not used the more recent low cost phenolic plastic model

 

[Keitai]

Any good?

Would you move the trimmer/router slowly into the side of the door (with hinges) or drop it through the top?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Any good?

Firstly, if you are installing new doors in existing (hinge recessed) casings jigs are generally pretty bloody useless and take more time to set up than you ever save with then, not to mention being an error prone approach (I assume you already have some 3mm packers and three Winbags to hold the door in the opening whilst you transfer the hinge positions from casings to doors).

Secondly, this is a non adjustable jig. It is nominally a 4in jig (i.e for 4in/102mm hinges), but it isn't adjustable to accommodate 3-1/2in or 3in hinges or seemingly narrow hinges, which limits its' usability. And what about European "4in" hinges which are often 98 to 100mm? Maybe OK for a DIYer installing a new door or two in new casings who doesn't mind a bit of a gap round the hinge (and a 2mm gap around the hinge or a recess which does not fit the hinge precisely is unacceptable in professional work IMHO - but then I'm a chippie and I have standards). If you must have a jig then you are far better off making one yourself in 6 or 9mm plywood, but oddballs and one offs are better done the way I mentioned above - no matter how many times or ways you ask the question the answer will come out the same because there are some skills you just need to learn and no jig will replace. Ever.

TBH I suggest you get a piece of 4 x 2 CLS (90 × 44mm) which is about the same thickness as a 30 minute fire door and go through an exercise of trimming to length (3mm gap at the top, 4mm at the bottom) then transferring the hinge positions from the door frame/casing/lining to the CLS. Then mark out the hinge recess positions and freehand rout the majority of the waste finishing with a chisel. Finally install 3 hinges and see how good a fit you have. One bit of kit that makes for faster hinge installation is a Vix bit in an appropriate size (this automatically centres the screw pilot holes on the hinge screw holes and makes for a neater appearance with no wonky screw heads) - and would be a more productive addition to your tool kit. Get this sorted out THEN look at making your own jigs to fit specific hinges precisely

Would you move the trimmer/router slowly into the side of the door (with hinges) or drop it through the top?

Most jigs are designed to be used with a plunge base, and an appropriate guide bush and cutter combination, but TBH you have zero experience of using a router and I feel that it would therefore be highly irresponsible of me, or anyone else, to recommend plunging in a fixed base router (especially a one handed model) to do a jig cut. It is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Keitai]

Had a practice freehanding on an old door in my garage. Took off the vac casing thing off my trimmer/router to I could see into where it was cutting and see the hinge line while I moved it about. (This isn't a plunge router.)

Pushed it into the door then to the left away from myself like you advised (material to the right). Wasn't perfect cut. Went slowly. Seemed ok. No feeling it would fly off or jolt in the wrong direction. Few circles rather than perfectly flat which needs improving. Mostly it's finishing the job without hurting myself which is always most important thing for me.

 

[big-all]

thats because you are leaning the router [not dead flat ]
it also looks too deep
you need a 2mm gap so unless your hinge leaves are 2+mm apart your pockets need to be less than the leave thickness otherwords you will get less than 2mm gap

 

[Keitai]

thats because you are leaning the router [not dead flat ]
it also looks too deep
you need a 2mm gap so unless your hinge leaves are 2+mm apart your pockets need to be less than the leave thickness otherwords you will get less than 2mm gap

I didn't set the depth exactly to the hinges. It was more just a practice. So I need to keep the machine perfectly vertical no tilting

 

[big-all]

yes if you think off it if you exaggerate the angle to say 10 degrees with the cutter at an angle it will hit the timber a few mm before the dead centre off the cutter and because the base is at a 10 degree angle it will continue to climb at that angle until the back off the base hits the top off the surface or you level of tip the router the other way

apart from the front edge where you can get the mm or two deeper the deepest it can go is what its set at any lean will lift the cutter as you now making space between base and work

 

[Deleted member 174758]

So I need to keep the machine perfectly vertical no tilting

Yes. Not doing that could lead to an accident.

If you find that the base is a bit small it is possible to remove the black plastic sub-base (four countersink screws) and replace it with a home made one made from clear polycarbonate or acrylic. This could be oblong in shape and you could even screw a couple of knobs onto it to keep your digits away from the cutter

 

[Keitai]

Yes. Not doing that could lead to an accident.

If you find that the base is a bit small it is possible to remove the black plastic sub-base (four countersink screws) and replace it with a home made one made from clear polycarbonate or acrylic. This could be oblong in shape and you could even screw a couple of knobs onto it to keep your digits away from the cutter

Have you ever experienced a trimmer like this or larger router kick back and injure someone?

I obviously wear goggles, but your throat isn't protected. As it's at hip height I pushed it from side so my nuts were safer as well. I guess the rest of your body would recover if hit by the blade

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Have you ever experienced a trimmer like this or larger router kick back and injure someone?

Yes. Seen one guy get a neat set of perforations across his stomach and chest - instead of pushing the router, he pulled it and was rewarded with a climb cut "tattoo". The reason you cut the way you do is to avoid a climb cut where the router potentially runs away with you. If you are pushing the router away from you your arms are generally locked further reducing any chance of injury. I wouldn't worry too much about your throat, though - a router isn't an attack dog!

I obviously wear goggles, but your throat isn't protected. As it's at hip height I pushed it from side so my nuts were safer as well. I guess the rest of your body would recover if hit by the blade

 

[Keitai]

Firstly, if you are installing new doors in existing (hinge recessed) casings jigs are generally pretty bloody useless and take more time to set up than you ever save with then, not to mention being an error prone approach (I assume you already have some 3mm packers and three Winbags to hold the door in the opening whilst you transfer the hinge positions from casings to doors).

Secondly, this is a non adjustable jig. It is nominally a 4in jig (i.e for 4in/102mm hinges), but it isn't adjustable to accommodate 3-1/2in or 3in hinges or seemingly narrow hinges, which limits its' usability. And what about European "4in" hinges which are often 98 to 100mm? Maybe OK for a DIYer installing a new door or two in new casings who doesn't mind a bit of a gap round the hinge (and a 2mm gap around the hinge or a recess which does not fit the hinge precisely is unacceptable in professional work IMHO - but then I'm a chippie and I have standards). If you must have a jig then you are far better off making one yourself in 6 or 9mm plywood, but oddballs and one offs are better done the way I mentioned above - no matter how many times or ways you ask the question the answer will come out the same because there are some skills you just need to learn and no jig will replace. Ever.

TBH I suggest you get a piece of 4 x 2 CLS (90 × 44mm) which is about the same thickness as a 30 minute fire door and go through an exercise of trimming to length (3mm gap at the top, 4mm at the bottom) then transferring the hinge positions from the door frame/casing/lining to the CLS. Then mark out the hinge recess positions and freehand rout the majority of the waste finishing with a chisel. Finally install 3 hinges and see how good a fit you have. One bit of kit that makes for faster hinge installation is a Vix bit in an appropriate size (this automatically centres the screw pilot holes on the hinge screw holes and makes for a neater appearance with no wonky screw heads) - and would be a more productive addition to your tool kit. Get this sorted out THEN look at making your own jigs to fit specific hinges precisely


Most jigs are designed to be used with a plunge base, and an appropriate guide bush and cutter combination, but TBH you have zero experience of using a router and I feel that it would therefore be highly irresponsible of me, or anyone else, to recommend plunging in a fixed base router (especially a one handed model) to do a jig cut. It is an accident waiting to happen.

I'm getting one win bag. Three is better then. I guess it's a case of pumping door up then jamming 3mm packers in top of door to mark where hinges go.

Dont u use 2mm packers to scribe what needs taking off on the door sides before putting in hinges

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I guess it's a case of pumping door up then jamming 3mm packers in top of door to mark where hinges go.

Two packers at the top, couple of Winbags at the bottom and either one on the lock side or alternatively a couple of fine taper wooden wedges (home made). No gap on the hinge side at this point because that can bugger up your accuracy when transferring hinge positions

The 3mm reference is really for fire doors - and as the building you are working on is a multiple occupancy building I was making an assumption that your public area doors would in all likelihood be 44mm thick fire doors. If that is the case the door gapping round 3 sides must be n the snge 2 to 4mm and as fire door hinges are invariably set to accommodate a 3mm gap......

To get a door in I tend to start by cutting to height, normally a couple of millimetres shy of the door opening height. Make sure before cutting the door to check both sides for height and the head and floor for true level - you can never be sure what some sloppy so and so on pricework has done when installing that casing/frame/lining. I also put a 6ft level on the jambs to check for plumbers and to see if they are bowed in any way. By doing this I can see if I have to tweak the door (plane) or the frame (packets and pry bar), Only when ,I have done all this will I offer it jn and start tweaking to get a good fit