Vaillant multiMATIC 700/5 + ambiSENSE - how to make it work?

[Blyskacz]

Hi All

I had combi boiler Vaillant 843 installed recently together with internet gateway VR 920 and multiMATIC VRC 700/5. Above configuration worked as planned with VRC configured as a standard room thermostat and could be controlled via VRC700 app.
In the next step I added 3x ambiSENSE thermostat valves to radiators in the bedrooms upstairs.
After adding them to the system via VRC700 app I lost access to multiMATIC vrc 700 - is no longer visible in the app. Also it looks like settings on the ambiSENSE have priority over the multiMATIC - when I change requested temp. on the vrc 700 it go back to the value from ambiSENSE after couple minutes so at the moment I don't have heating downstairs unless one of the ambiSENSE TRV is calling for heat.
Question is - can I still use VRC 700 as a standard room thermostat to control temp. downstairs ?
If not - how can I make it works ?
I don't mind that some radiators downstairs will get hot when ambiSENSE upstairs is calling for heat.
I suppose I could buy another ambiSENSE TRV and simply place it somewhere downstairs without even installing on the radiator, but maybe there is better option...

kind regards
Pawel

 

[ScottishGasMan]

No. You cant use the 700 as a thermostat when using ambisense. remember the system is designed for all the radiators to have Ambisence valves fitted not just a few.

 

[Blyskacz]

Thanks for the information - shame I didn't know that before.
What about creating separate zone for downstairs - can vrc 700 be used as room thermostat then ?

regards
Pawel

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Unfortunately not, the VRC700 become the brains of the ambisense when those TRVs are installed so looses its function as a thermostat completely, even if it could be used as a stat, without ambisense TRVs on the downstairs radiators there would be no way for the stat to turn off the heating downstairs when the heats on upstairs, best bet is to get some more TRV heads, even add them in one at a time (there not cheap, but not terribly dear for one at a time) and add them to the "key" radiators you want to control, ie one on lounge rad, and one on each bedroom rad, you can control those rooms individually then, and when any single room is calling for heat the non Ambisense rads will come on with them, which isnt so bad for hall/bathroom etc, plus you can still keep the normal TRVs on those rads and leave them at a lowish setting.

 

[flycop2000]

Blyskacs,

In your VRC700 controller do you have 3 devices listed, ie VRC700, VR920 and the boiler? (one device is listed as "control" but don't know if that's the VRC700 or VR920) MY VRC700 is installed in the boiler facia.
I have a similar setup to you but I'm struggling to get it to work.
I know my app works and the VR50's work but my boiler does not fire up if I increase the temp on one of them to greater than the existing room temp. This morning the radiators without VR50's were hot, I have no idea why the CH was on?

 

[SwissKev]

Hi All

I had combi boiler Vaillant 843 installed recently together with internet gateway VR 920 and multiMATIC VRC 700/5. Above configuration worked as planned with VRC configured as a standard room thermostat and could be controlled via VRC700 app.
In the next step I added 3x ambiSENSE thermostat valves to radiators in the bedrooms upstairs.
After adding them to the system via VRC700 app I lost access to multiMATIC vrc 700 - is no longer visible in the app. Also it looks like settings on the ambiSENSE have priority over the multiMATIC - when I change requested temp. on the vrc 700 it go back to the value from ambiSENSE after couple minutes so at the moment I don't have heating downstairs unless one of the ambiSENSE TRV is calling for heat.
Question is - can I still use VRC 700 as a standard room thermostat to control temp. downstairs ?
If not - how can I make it works ?
I don't mind that some radiators downstairs will get hot when ambiSENSE upstairs is calling for heat.
I suppose I could buy another ambiSENSE TRV and simply place it somewhere downstairs without even installing on the radiator, but maybe there is better option...

kind regards
Pawel

Sounds like your system is working as designed. I have added VR50s to my installation, and the VRC700 still shows in the app. I was hoping for the VR50s to take over control of the boiler like it has yours, but they are not. They are just acting like TRVs with a timer and temp setting.

My VRC700 is installed in the boiler, and so is not being used as a thermostat anyway.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Sounds like your system is working as designed. I have added VR50s to my installation, and the VRC700 still shows in the app. I was hoping for the VR50s to take over control of the boiler like it has yours, but they are not. They are just acting like TRVs with a timer and temp setting.

My VRC700 is installed in the boiler, and so is not being used as a thermostat anyway.

It should look like this in app. Are you still getting a zone for the vrc700 showing?

If so, go into the installer menu on the 700 and system config, then post up the settings ill look and tell you if somethings not right

 

[SwissKev]

Hello, Thank you for your reply.

Yes, my app still shows ZONE2, with the VR50s.

My settings;
Adaptive heat curve: No
Configure heat circ : All
System Diagram: 1
Config VR70 addr.1: 1
MA VR70: No funct
H

HEATING 1
Type of Circuit: Inactive

HEATING2
Type of Circuit: Heating
Status: off
Target flow temp: 0
Current temp: 24
Excessive temp: 0K
Max limit outside temp: 21
Heating Curve 1.5
Minimum temp: 15
Max temp: 75
Auto Off Mode: Eco
Room Temp mod: None
Status ext heat dem: On
Pump status: Off
Mixer status: Closing

ZONE2
Zone activated: Yes
Day temp: 20
SetBack temp: 17
Room temp: --
Zone assignment: VRC700
Zone mixer status: Closed


My system is wired in the VR70 to use R2 and R5/6. I can use either config 1 (direct+mixer zone) or config 5 (two mixer zones). The pump and mixer being connected to ZONE2 in either case. There is no difference in operation.

VRC700 is in the boiler. There is no rad or VR50/VR51 in the room with the boiler.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Do you have an electronic mixer on the system? I'm assuming this is a combi boiler just heating radiators?

 

[SwissKev]

There is a Vaillant VDM mixer. Attached is a photo of the system. I have wondered if it is an issue with the system being Swiss. VR50s are not sold in Switzerland or on the Swiss Vaillant website. Maybe the app itself knows, as when I first registered the app, I selected Switzerland. It could also be the firmware on the VR920 or VRC700 which is a Swiss edition. I got the valves from Germany. I asked Vaillant for help, but they refuse to, as VR50s are not sold in Switzerland.

 

[SwissKev]

Well, I have got it working!! Thank you ScottishGasMan, for your offer of assistance, here's what I did in the end;
1. Powered off system
2. Rewired the VR70 to use R1 & R3/4, and moved the flow sensor to S5. Basically wire to use ZONE1 instead of ZONE2.
3. Full factory default on the VRC700 after powering up.
4. Config system diagram to 1, with VR70 configured to 5. (two mixed heating zones)
5. Set HEATING2 to Inactive, as I don't have a ZONE2.
6. Opened app, the screen refreshed and the ZONE2, that was there, vanished, leaving only the room VR50s.
7. I had already set all rooms to OFF, before starting this.
8. After a while the VRC700 went from being in set back mode, to OFF. I knew something has reconfigured the VRC.
9. Set a room to manual, pumped up the temp setting to force a heat demand.
10. Voila! VRC700 turned to Day mode, temp required was same a my room settings, and boiler powered up.
11. Set room to off. Boiler shutdown.

Cool. I have it working. It could be moving the wiring to HEATING1/ZONE1 that did it, or the factory default of the VRC, though I had already made a reset before, and didn't get this result.

I have more VR50s on order to complete the installation.

No thanks award goes to Vaillant Suisse, for not helping.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Great news, Just finished my shift and getting caught up, was going to say to you about it being zone one rather than 2 as that's the only configuration I've ever came across on it, but was thinking it could be the mixer throwing it off.