Warranty on Electrical works contracted to a builder

[blackbirdxx]

I have had building work and a full electrical rewire carried out as a result of burst pipes and flooding. This was carried out by a building firm appointed by my insurance company. The overall drying out and building works have taken an age and the best part three years.

I remember signing a Practical Completion certificate approximately 1 year ago but there was still a great deal of additional works and snagging to be completed. Anyway, all the snagging was completed approximately 6 months ago but since then a few electrical items have failed such as a double socket and a kitchen ceiling spotlight unit. All the electrical work was subcontracted by the builder and was completed about 2 years ago.

My question is, how long a warranty should I get on the electrical works and when should it start?? I have never signed anything to confirm that the works and snagging have been finally completed by the builder or insurance company. I do know that the spot lamps for example have a 3 year guarantee from the manufacturer but obviously I don't have the receipts.
All the electrical bits and pieces are small beer, fortunately, which I could do myself if necessary, but I'd like to know how I stand if anything more should fail.

Thanks in advance....

 

[Risteard]

I would suggest that one year would be standard on the parts.

 

[Taylortwocities]

@blackbirdxx

I assume that the “building” company were members of one of the competent electricians schemes (NICEIC, etc)?

These schemes have a workmanship warranty. 6 years in the case of NICEIC
https://www.niceic.com/media/news/niceic-launches-platinum-promise

So the company, or the CPS, should sort workmanship issues if there is a dispute.
As above, a year warranty on parts is usual as that is what the supplier will get from the manufacturer of the parts.

I note your comment on a 3-year warranty for the downlights. Some manufacturers do offer extended warranties, usually the purchase has to be registered with the maker. Some require the installation to have been carried out by a registered electrician.

 

[blackbirdxx]

I note your comment on a 3-year warranty for the downlights. Some manufacturers do offer extended warranties, usually the purchase has to be registered with the maker. Some require the installation to have been carried out by a registered electrician.

Thanks for the feedback.
Just to clarify, if I purchased the downlight units from Screwfix or anywhere else, I would be getting a 3 year guarantee. Is it not reasonable for the builder/electrician to pass this guarantee to me or am I asking too much?

Also, you say there will be a 1 year guarantee which seems reasonable for most types of building contract, but when does the guarantee start?? Should it be after me signing a certificate of full completion, something I've never signed or received??

 

[Taylortwocities]

Any guarantee/warranty starts when the goods are purchased. The supplier will want to see proof of purchase to determine the purchase date.

Exactly the same as if you bought a washing machine from AO, etc.

Check the T&Cs of the contract with the company. This may have other terms which may well trump a supplier’s terms.

BTW. Which CPS were the electricians registered with?

 

[ericmark]

I would have thought you have no contract with builder he is working for the insurance company, so paperwork would go to the insurance company?

There are some things which need passing to owner, often wondered what happens when owner technically mortgage lender? But as far as I am aware the completion certificates or compliance certificates go to owner, but the electrical installation certificate goes to person ordering the work?

One would hope the insurance company would either pass on paperwork or instruct builder to give it to you. However when my mother had work done by the country council care and repair, I failed in spite of numerous requests to get any paperwork for the work to her door bell, which included swapping a bell transformer to a 13 amp socket which when tested with a RCD tested failed to trip, so assume connected to non protected side of consumer unit (2009) so if county council don't bother, what are the chances of an insurance company?

As to start date of warranty without paperwork it would be date of manufacturer. And the manufacturer does not legally need to replace it needs to go though the chain of supply, so you claim off insurance company, they claim from installer, he claims from supplier etc.

I had a problem with a leak from a shower, the serrated washer had been missed out, and the plastic pipe worked out of the fitting, it was an insurance job, and it had been fitted in first place due to an insurance claim, it seems if it had not been fitted by the plumber appointed by the insurance I would have needed to claim from plumber.

Warranty is hard, for a time I worked for an auto electrical firm, we had to renew batteries if they failed, and then we returned batteries to the manufacturer, they would test battery, and reject claims if battery discharged, but with sealed battery impossible for us to test if discharged without breaking open the casing. So often we did not get the money for the battery, at least from that manufacturer.

 

[winston1]

The Consumer Rights Act gives you 6 years protection (5 in Scotland).

 

[denso13]

The Consumer Rights Act gives you 6 years protection (5 in Scotland).

It doesn't apply to works carried out by a builder.

 

[blackbirdxx]

I would have thought you have no contract with builder he is working for the insurance company, so paperwork would go to the insurance company?

I do remember signing the contract, so the work was between myself and the builder. I received no copy of the contract as the works were managed by a surveyor appointed by the insurance company.
The builders haven't refused to do the work yet so I may be jumping the gun. I'm just a little concerned as the electrical works were probably completed 2 years ago with the snagging works for the main building contract only finally completing about 6 months ago. I have signed no final completion certificate and would have thought that any warranty should start from the date of me signing the certificate confirming I am happy with the completed works. I did receive the electrical certificates after requesting them but I'm sure the builders will try to wriggle out of doing the repairs so I just wanted to get my facts right.

 

[JohnW2]

I do remember signing the contract, so the work was between myself and the builder. I received no copy of the contract as the works were managed by a surveyor appointed by the insurance company.

I don't quite get that - I don't doubt that you signed something, but it seems unlikely that it was truly a 'contract', unless you were agreeing to pay the builder yourself, which would seem unlikley.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

The Consumer Rights Act gives you 6 years protection (5 in Scotland).

Complete and utter tosh, it gives no such rights.
What the CRA does give you is a right for goods to be "as described" and "fit for purpose", "reasonably durable", and "free of defects" - and for services it says they need to be provided with reasonable professional diligence. The key part is "reasonably durable" and it does NOT lay down any timescales for this. If you buy a pan for 50p off the market stall then your expectations (e.g. time before the handle falls off) are going to be very different to buying an expensive "high end brand" pan. As a general rule of thumb, faults appearing within 6 months are assumed to be latent (hence present at time of sale and the seller's responsibility), after 2 years they won't be. It could be that expectations for some items could be quite long - over 6 years.
The actual time when it would be considered reasonable to consider a fault to be latent will depend on the specifics of the case. It is important to note that just because something develops a fault, it does not mean that the fault was latent (pre-existing at the time of sale) - faults can, and do, occur after manufacture.

The CRA does not limit rights to 6 years, you may still have rights after 10 years. However a separate bit of legislation (statute of limitations) sets a limit of 6 years for civil action (England) - so after 6 years you may still have rights, but are time barred from bringing any action.

 

[JohnW2]

.... As a general rule of thumb, faults appearing within 6 months are assumed to be latent (hence present at time of sale and the seller's responsibility), after 2 years they won't be. It could be that expectations for some items could be quite long - over 6 years. .... The actual time when it would be considered reasonable to consider a fault to be latent will depend on the specifics of the case. It is important to note that just because something develops a fault, it does not mean that the fault was latent (pre-existing at the time of sale) - faults can, and do, occur after manufacture.

Do I take it that a 'latent fault' could be a (design or material) problem which could in no way be identified (e.g. by testing) at the time of sale, but which had an adverse effect on long-term behaviour/performance/survival?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

Complete and utter tosh

Yes, there’s a lot of it about, mostly from one source

 

[winston1]

However a separate bit of legislation (statute of limitations) sets a limit of 6 years for civil action (England) - so after 6 years you may still have rights, but are time barred from bringing any action.

So effectively 6 years protection then as I said.

 

[JohnW2]

So effectively 6 years protection then as I said.

Not at all - in fact, almost the opposite ...

In itself, it doesn't mean that there is necessarily any protection at all, at any point in time. As Simon said, it means that, even if there were an apparently reasonable reason for 'making a claim', it could not be pursued in civil courts after more than 6 years (i.e. would not be legally enforceable).