Washing machine. Is a fused spur absolutely necessary?

[Penelopejean]

We are having our kitchen newly fitted. The fitter has put in a double socket as requested under the worktop for the washing machine and fridge. But he hasn't put in any fused spurred sockets above the worktop which I thought was a Part P requirement looking through other questions.
Could you tell me if it absolutely necessary please? Also if he isn't a qualified electrician(which I fear he isn't) is there any way we can get a certificate from him after the work is done?

 

[equitum]

We are having our kitchen newly fitted. The fitter has put in a double socket as requested under the worktop for the washing machine and fridge.

This is poor practice as the washing machine should be on its own socket as a double socket has a total maximum load of 13A, which may be exceeded by plugging in the fridge.

But he hasn't put in any fused spurred sockets above the worktop which I thought was a Part P requirement looking through other questions.

There is no requirement in the current wiring regulations to also have a switch above the worktop. Although this is good practice, not absolutely necessary as the appliance is overcurrent protected by the plugtop, and isolation can be provided by unplugging it, albeit by having to pull out the appliance.

Also if he isn't a qualified electrician(which I fear he isn't) is there any way we can get a certificate from him after the work is done?

Probably not. Unless he registered with a scheme such as NICEIC, ECA, or NAPIT then he should have notified building control before commencing work, and then had the work inspected by them after completion.

 

[DESL]

Also if he isn't a qualified electrician(which I fear he isn't) is there any way we can get a certificate from him after the work is done?

Have a look here to see if he's on the register of competent people

http://www.competentperson.co.uk/search.asp

It is good practise to fit an isolator switch above the work top feeding a single outlet so washing machine can be isolated if it goes wrong.

 

[rjb]

Just gone through the Electrician's guide to building regs and states:

5.2.2 p56
vii) Socket-outlets supplying appliances pushed under a work surface eg dishwashers, tumble driers and fridges should be accessible when the appliance is pulled out.
viii) Appliances built into kitchen furniture (integrated appliances) should be connected to a socket outlet or fused connection unit that is readily accessible when the appliance is in place and in normal use or supplied from a scoket outlet or other connecting device controlled by a ready accessible double pole switch or switched fused connection unit.

In other words you would be OK with plugs behind your appliances that are free-standing.

Of course if you upgraded later for built-in appliances then you would have to change the wiring. Electricians will try to make an installation future proof so will prefer to put DP switches so all combinations are covered which does make good sense.


Remember rules are for the obedience of the foolish and the guidance of the wise.

 

[Softus]

Remember rules are for the obedience of the foolish and the guidance of the wise.

That's just a bunch of horse-sh1t put about by bad managers.

 

[kevnurse]

You should not assume that the double socket below the worktop is on a spur if the machines are moveable. It is quite possible, with all the walls exposed during the kitchen re-fit, that the installer was able to fit the double socket onto the main ring, which effectively doubles the capacity of the socket.

If you are comfortable with electricity you can loosen the socket screws and have a peep behind it and see how many wires go into each termination. If its 2, the socket is on a ring. If its only one wire per terminal, its a spur and your worries are confirmed.

 

[salem2000]

You should not assume that the double socket below the worktop is on a spur if the machines are moveable. It is quite possible, with all the walls exposed during the kitchen re-fit, that the installer was able to fit the double socket onto the main ring, which effectively doubles the capacity of the socket.

If you are comfortable with electricity you can loosen the socket screws and have a peep behind it and see how many wires go into each termination. If its 2, the socket is on a ring. If its only one wire per terminal, its a spur and your worries are confirmed.

A radial circuit would also have 2 conductors per terminal, so to assume anything with electrical installations is not a good idea.

I thought a 13 amp socket was rated at 13 amps. I know some double sockets have been tested to 26 amps, but I wouldn't want to rely on them to be safe.

 

[danlightbulb]

Also I thought a 13 amp socket was rated at 13 amps. I know some have been twsted to 26 amps but is this wise.

Isn't it the plug that is rated at 13A, not the socket. The sockets are 'suitable' for a 13A plug - that doesn't mean they are rated at 13A.

A double socket can take 2 13A appliances. A treble socket can take 3. It doesn't say anywhere that you have to reduce the load of each appliance accordingly.

 

[salem2000]

Also I thought a 13 amp socket was rated at 13 amps. I know some have been twsted to 26 amps but is this wise.

Isn't it the plug that is rated at 13A, not the socket. The sockets are 'suitable' for a 13A plug - that doesn't mean they are rated at 13A.

A double socket can take 2 13A appliances. A treble socket can take 3. It doesn't say anywhere that you have to reduce the load of each appliance accordingly.

BS1363-2: 1995 specifies that outlets shall be labelled with their maximum rating. Therefore a 13 amp socket is rated at 13 amps.

From MK

All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit. Double socket-outlets have been manufactured and tested to exceed this rating by margin that allows electrical safety and reduces the risk of heat and mechanical damage to components due to overloading. It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissable maximum loading and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.

Research by ourselves and third party organisations has shown that all MK double sockets can safely withstand a continuous load of 19.5A for an indefinite period. Increasing the load slightly will begin to cause heat and mechanical stresses on the components in a relatively short period. Testing showed that a load of 22.3A was sufficient to cause heat stress that would cause a browning of the faceplates and sufficient heat to cause insulation damage to cable cores. A load of 24A for 43 hours was sufficient to cause significant heat damage to the material in which the socket-oulet was situated and within 75 hours sufficient to cause significant damage that would lead to the very real potential of fire.
[/i]

 

[danlightbulb]

Thanks for the confirmation!

I would suggest that those requirements are not known by the general public, nor the fact that loads on double sockets should be reduced to stay within the bounds of the socket.

Is it safe to have a 13A socket which can only stand 26A for a short period of time, on a 32A MCB? If there was a fault the socket would melt before the MCB tripped.

 

[bernardgreen]

Is it safe to have a 13A socket which can only stand 26A for a short period of time, on a 32A MCB? If there was a fault the socket would melt before the MCB tripped.

Better to have two singles rather then one double. The weak point is the cable terminations behind the xoket which in some makes can hardly cope with 13 amps let alone 26 amps.

 

[kevnurse]

Thanks Salem for the info. I've learned something today.

I wonder how many house fires have been started at double sockets with only 1 appliance powered by each socket. I reckon the average householder would consider two 3kW heaters, powered by one double socket with no other appliances, to be a safe arrangement. Hmmm...

 

[salem2000]

Thanks Salem for the info. I've learned something today.

I wonder how many house fires have been started at double sockets with only 1 appliance powered by each socket. I reckon the average householder would consider two 3kW heaters, powered by one double socket with no other appliances, to be a safe arrangement. Hmmm...

Why can't they put the max rating on the outside of the fitting, so people can see it...... Another thing makes me mad, is they still make those adapters that allow at least three plugs into one outlet. Have seen them being used on 6 point extension leads as well. Madness......

I feel much better now........................

 

[electronicsuk]

Another thing makes me mad, is they still make those adapters that allow at least three plugs into one outlet. Have seen them being used on 6 point extension leads as well. Madness......

While it isn't good practice to piggyback extension leads, it isn't something I would worry too much about in practice. The multiway extension blocks you speak of used to be frowned upon as many of them were unfused, allowing someone to potentially pull 30/32A through a single 13A outlet. They now incorporate a 13A fuse, and apart from my dislike of them due to their inherent untidy appearance and the stress of multiple 13A leads pulling the block away from the wall, they are relatively safe.

Matthew

 

[kevnurse]

Yes, no problem with any extension lead with multiple sockets protected by an appropriate fuse.

However, manufacturers should engrave "max total loading" info on the face (or maybe the the top edge?) of unfused sockets. Lets give the householder the info he needs to stay safe....