Water getting in around window. Fix?

Discussion in 'Building' started by Mr. Clueless, 21 Jan 2016.

  1. Mr. Clueless

    Mr. Clueless

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    After we had damp work completed in our living room, all seemed to be well.

    Except there is now wet patches showing where they never did beforehand...

    Photo 10-01-2016, 10 26 52 pm (1).jpg

    The cement (whatever it is) dashing finish on the outside was a little cracked as it met the window. This is the case on both sides (& has wet patches both sides).

    The guys who did the work ran some silicone down to see if this would fix. Told us to keep our eye on it to see if it comes back.

    Well under a bit of rain today - it did.

    This is the outside (but NOTE: this is an old photo & the phone cable running inside has since been removed, before all this work was carried out).
    Photo 01-12-2014, 6 40 06 pm.jpg
    and like i said - the same applies to the opposite end, which also has small cracks.



    What would be the fix here?

    I would say that surely the entire face of the house does not need taking back to brick & then re-dashing.

    But what would (should) they do? How much should they chip off & re-cement?
     
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  3. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

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    your old pictures don't provide clear details of where the cracks were and how he filled them up, so new photos might help, and removing that telephone wire rules out water entering along the wire,

    But I would say that it looks like the bottom part of your window is is not an opening and you may have a top opening, from where the water may be getting in when it rains, the flange of your opening section may not close tightly against the PVC frame as the steel hinges and its moving parts and pivots may have worn out excessively and not thus not able to provide good tension to press seal the flange part tightly against the frame, and the rain water seeps in through this slight gap, and enters the inner parts of the PVC extruded frame, runs down and collects at the bottom and then slowly escapes into the wall from small gaps or from screw holes that is holding the frame into the wall, I won't be surprised if the inside of frame is filled with rain water when it rains and seeps out slowly from miter joints and frame fixing screw holes. These PVC frames are hollow inside and water can get in them from joints etc.

    You may try and drill a tiny 2 to 3mm hole at the bottom corner of the frame and see if any accumulated water flows out, especially when it rains. Then you know water is making its way in from the opening part not sealing properly when shut hard.

    I am talking from experience but it was on an aluminium double glazed window, hinges had worn out, and on top of that my rain water gutter was also blocked and so gutter was spilling water down like a water fall, running down the wall and skimming the window and getting in through this small gap, and making its way into the room, wetting my carpets and also seeping further down and damaging the ceiling in the downstairs room.

    I did three things to avoid such damage in future, 1. cleaned the gutters, 2. replaced worn hinges, 3. I glued a small plastic strip above this gap to defelect rain water next time the gutter gets blocked, which it does on a regular bases.
     
  4. Mr. Clueless

    Mr. Clueless

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    Sorry I'm on my mobile at work right now so can't respond with much. The cracks are where the cementing/dashing meets the outer frame.
    On the other side chunks of this could actually be pulled off & it's all right in line where the wet is on the plaster. Though oddly the bit where the chunks could be removed, that isn't the wettest side.

    I notice no water dripping down the inside of the window/frame though.

    I'll try & get a photo which would likely be Sunday since I'm going to work when it's dark & coming home when it's dark.
     
  5. r896neo

    r896neo

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    Firstly is it a solid wall or cavity wall? If its cavity then you can disregard much of below.

    If there any damp showing on the head of the reveal (plaster above the window)

    Is the dashing blown at all? i.e is it hollow to tap on above the window? Dashing can delevop cracks higher up which then allows water to run down the face of the wall behind it and it will stop when it hits an opening like a window cill. Don't be alarmed just yet though this is just one possibility.

    Patching dashing is almost impossible to do well but It would be possible to re-render just the reveals if you get a neat and careful plasterer to grind a good straight line.
     
  6. r896neo

    r896neo

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    Sorry just looked at it again, is there a cill on the outside other than that bit of pvc? Was this an original opening or an addition?
     
  7. Gazman16

    Gazman16

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    Hard to tell from the photo but is the gap between the window and the PVC cill filled with silicone there? If so take it out.
    This is meant to be a drainage slot that allows any water that gets past the rubber gaskets to drain out of the bottom of the window and over the cill.
    Also open your window sash and look for the drainage holes inside. Make sure they are clear and pour a cup of water in there to make sure the drainage is clear, It should come straight out over the cill.
     
  8. Mr. Clueless

    Mr. Clueless

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    I'm just home .... dark again. I'll be in work tomorrow for 7am & back around 5:30pm (so dark again). It'll be Sunday before i can get you a good photo.

    Yes it is cavity wall.

    Is there a cill on the outside other than the bit of PVC? No i don't think so. If it drips off that PVC lip then it lands on the floor.

    Yes this is the original opening.

    No there is no silicone in that little channel thing under the window. It's at the side of the window as it runs vertical (where dashing meets PVC & runs upwards).

    I'm pretty sure the drain holes are not blocked. I will check again.
     
  9. Mr. Clueless

    Mr. Clueless

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    So since i got some daylight... (i will upload pics as thumbnails (so you'll have to click them) since there's going to be quite a few)

    IMG_5066.JPG
    ^^ That is the main living room window. The worst corner is the far corner as you look at it (near the down pipe) although the near corner also has damp coming through.
    IMG_5067.JPG IMG_5068.JPG
    ^^ That is a close up of the 'better' (near) corner. You may be able to make out a little bit of the silicone as the dashing meets the PVC.
    IMG_5070.JPG
    ^^ That is the worst (far) corner (the very first pic in the thread).

    I then noticed the black rubber (seal?) where the glass meets the frame - there were gaps in the corners. Some bigger than others. I don't know if this is normal or not. Strangely the bigger gap was on the side where the damp isn't as bad.
    IMG_5069.JPG
    ^^ near side that isn't so bad
    IMG_5074.JPG
    ^^ far side that is worst. The pic doesn't show the gap too good. There is one, just not as much as the near side.


    The side window to the living room also has damp issue although not as bad as the main window.

    ** The side window however does not have an opening **

    IMG_5063.JPG

    I think it's fairly even on both sides of this one.

    Left side (as you look at it from outside)....
    IMG_5065.JPG IMG_5077.JPG

    Right side (as you look at it from outside)....
    IMG_5064.JPG

    Well it looks like i've reached my images limit.

    Oh & i poured water through the drain holes in the opening & it drained off perfectly fine on both sides from all 4 holes (2 per opening).
     
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  11. Mr. Clueless

    Mr. Clueless

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    On those rubber (seals?) where the glass meets PVC though. I had a look in our bedroom & on one side there's quite a huge gap....
    IMG_5081.JPG
    ^^^ NOTE:::::::: Above pic & next pic is of the bedroom window. Not living room.

    Interestingly the paper on that recess bit has peeled. We assumed condensation or something. Whereas the paper on the next side i'll show, hasn't....
    IMG_5082.JPG
    And the (seal?) is touching there.

    The (seal?) on the side window, i forgot to show that....
    IMG_5077.JPG
    IMG_5078.JPG

    Though where my finger is, it isn't necessarily wetter on the inside i think. I think both sides are fairly equal.

    So i don't know if it's this at all, or where the (render?) meets the PVC or what.
     
  12. Gazman16

    Gazman16

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    Your last pic looks like there is no sealant at all on that side, Get a tube of "low modulus, Neutral cure" clear silicone and seal it up.
    Check all the bottom corners where the window meets the cill and the wall, Again in the last pic there looks to be a fairly large hole in that corner.

    The gaskets are unlikely to be causing any problems but it will reduce the life span of the glass units if left like that.
    Try to pull one out a bit, If it is shaped like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sample-Pa...809405?hash=item4d08b8c83d:g:KrAAAOxyYANTa4dM
    Then its called a wedge gasket, You should just be able to pull them out and stretch them a bit before putting them back.

    Another question that just sprung to mind is, Were there PVC trims all around the window but taken off to plaster right up to the frames?
     
  13. Mr. Clueless

    Mr. Clueless

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    By last pic i assume you mean the final pic directly above your post (so in my 2nd post today)?

    I ask because where would you see sealant in that pic? Unless you mean last pic of my first post of today? In which case - no there's no sealant at the side window.

    I've got the sealant ready to go but it has been raining & today was drizzly so i couldn't do it.

    "Fairly large hole" - i think you mean final pic of the post above yours? In which case the black trim is actually quite close together in that photo. It's just a poor photo. It's closer than in most other pics.

    Originally there were PVC trims, yes...way way back when we bought the house. They had put these over wallpaper if i remember right. But it all had to come off for damp proofing.

    What i find strange is it's 'just happened'. I don't believe in coincidences though and things don't 'just happen'. Before these guys did the living room, the areas around the window (inside) were totally plasterboarded if i remember right. Now they're not. They're plastered. To my knowledge that is the only difference.


    Are you any closer to guessing as to what could be causing this? Especially the main window since that is easily the worst effected.
     
  14. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

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    I would say you need to seal any visible cracks at corners and even apply some sealant where gaskets aren't stretching properly all the way to corner, there are gaps and cracks from one can guess water is getting in, I hope your gutters are Ok and they are not spilling rain water over the windows, water is very strange, it can make its way in thorough small crevices that you might not think it can. A small crack sucks water in through capillary action.
     
  15. Gazman16

    Gazman16

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    Sorry yes I meant the last pic of the second group of pics that you posted (I was writing it while you posted the 3rd lot).
    You don't need to worry too much about the shrunk gaskets for now, Any water that gets in there comes out of the drainage holes and over the cill. It is a separate issue and can be sorted by stretching the gaskets as I said above.

    Damp corners by windows are normally one of 3 things:

    1. Gaps in the external sealant. When its dry clean the frames and seal the missing bits. With a bit of luck thats all it is.

    2. Who ever fitted the windows hasn't sealed the ends of the cills before placing the window on top allowing water to blow under the window and track to the ends of the cill and into the wall.
    As your windows have been in for quite a while and the damp is a new issue this one is unlikely to be your cause.

    3. Your house may have brick closed cavity's with vertical DPC's. The original windows were probably 90-100mm deep and spanned over the DPC then new 70mm PVC windows were fitted to the outside edge and no longer span the DPC. The 20-30mm gap in the plaster is often covered with a PVC trim and no problems but if you take the trims off and plaster to the frame the plaster will bridge the internal and external walls bypassing the DPC and tracking moisture through.

    Hopefully number 1 is your problem and easily fixed, 2 or 3 would mean having to cut back the plaster to work out what is going on.
     
  16. Mr. Clueless

    Mr. Clueless

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    I hope we're thinking of the same thing with the trim. Basically just a (1inch?) wide piece of plastic that is basically just self adhesive'd on to the wall, butted up against the main window. That is all. So i would've assumed anything going on underneath it would go on underneath it regardless.

    Anyway i'll have a do with the sealant myself & lay it on a bit thicker as it's currently very thin. It may not look too nice, but we're not about to sell it & nobody is going to come up admiring our windows or anything, so we shall see.
     
  17. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

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    As long as they are water tight, thats what matters.
     
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