WC Cistern Filler Removal - Help!

[RVS6]

Hi
I have been trying to remove my cistern filler as it is constantly running so I have decided to replace it.
I have removed the flexible hose supply pipe from the base of the cistern, but have noted that the large white plastic nut clamping the filler in position is recessed into the vitreous china carcass of the WC. See attached photo. I have a 32mm box spanner but that is too small - must be circa 35-40mm nut so 1.5" I guess, but hard to get an accurate measurement on it. I have googled and 1.5" box spanners are about £20!
I have attached a photo.
The only other way would appear to be unbolting the actual cistern from the WC pan to get to the nut - seems crazy really - don't expect it will be straightforward as these are rather rusty.

Any ideas on how to get the nut off without removing the cistern and where I can get a cheap tool for it?

Many thanks.

 

[foxhole]

Wedge a large flat blade of screwdriver or chisel in the recess to hold the nut still and turn entire inlet valve from above .Or use long nose pliers to release .

Or cut the nuts off and remove all.

 

[terryplumb]

Judging by your pic , you may not even get a box spanner onto the nut ,the hole in the pan looks to be offset/ out of alignment with the nut, or is it just the camera angle ?Any way ,I would just remove the cistern from the pan ,make sure you have a new donut washer ,don't try to re use the one that's there.

 

[dilalio]

Before doing all this, have you tried replacing the inlet diaphragm?

 

[durhamplumber]

Can you not just leave it,take the blank out the other side and fit new valve there?

 

[oldbuffer]

This is a really stupid design. If you really have to change the valve, and can't get away with changing the diaphragm washer, then:

1. There should be two screws holding the back of the cistern to the wall. Remove them.
2. Undo the two wing nuts under the back of the bowl which hold the cistern to the bowl.
3. Remove the cistern.
4. Replace the inlet valve. Generally preferred on is a Fluidmaster with brass threaded shank. Do it up tight, but don't overdo it.
5. Replace the "doughnut" washer which fits between the cistern and the back of the bowl.
6. Refit the bolts which go through the bottom of the cistern (or better still replace with a stainless steel set). Do them up loosely, then tighten one at a time about one turn per go to make sure cistern is level.
7. Refit the screws securing the cistern to the wall.
8. Reconnect the inlet pipe to the new valve, with a new fibre washer. Tighten up, but not enough to loosen the valve. Hold the valve while you tighten.
9. Turn the water back on and test.

What you will need from the plumber's merchant is a new doughnut washer, a new set of cistern securing bolts (optional), the new valve, and a 1/2" red fibre tap connector washer. Take the old doughnut washer with you as there are a fair number of variations.

Possible snags:

1. The cistern has been siliconed to the wall and / or the bowl. Cut through the silicone with a sharp kitchen / carving type knife.
2. You can't undo the cistern securing bolts. Drill out from inside.

 

[durhamplumber]

This is a really stupid design. If you really have to change the valve, and can't get away with changing the diaphragm washer, then:

1. There should be two screws holding the back of the cistern to the wall. Remove them.
2. Undo the two wing nuts under the back of the bowl which hold the cistern to the bowl.
3. Remove the cistern.
4. Replace the inlet valve. Generally preferred on is a Fluidmaster with brass threaded shank. Do it up tight, but don't overdo it.
5. Replace the "doughnut" washer which fits between the cistern and the back of the bowl.
6. Refit the bolts which go through the bottom of the cistern (or better still replace with a stainless steel set). Do them up loosely, then tighten one at a time about one turn per go to make sure cistern is level.
7. Refit the screws securing the cistern to the wall.
8. Reconnect the inlet pipe to the new valve, with a new fibre washer. Tighten up, but not enough to loosen the valve. Hold the valve while you tighten.
9. Turn the water back on and test.

What you will need from the plumber's merchant is a new doughnut washer, a new set of cistern securing bolts (optional), the new valve, and a 1/2" red fibre tap connector washer. Take the old doughnut washer with you as there are a fair number of variations.

Possible snags:

1. The cistern has been siliconed to the wall and / or the bowl. Cut through the silicone with a sharp kitchen / carving type knife.
2. You can't undo the cistern securing bolts. Drill out from inside.

I saw similair design other day...Far far easier just to take blank out of other side and fit flexi if needed

 

[durhamplumber]

You can't undo the cistern securing bolts. Drill out from inside.

Jeeezzz.. would NOT fancy that caper...even if you can reach them..

 

[durhamplumber]

The cistern has been siliconed to the wall and / or the bowl. Cut through the silicone with a sharp kitchen / carving type knife.

And smash the tiles v likely...Defo last resort taking cistern off.

 

[durhamplumber]

This is a really stupid design. If you really have to change the valve, and can't get away with changing the diaphragm washer, then:

1. There should be two screws holding the back of the cistern to the wall. Remove them.
2. Undo the two wing nuts under the back of the bowl which hold the cistern to the bowl.
3. Remove the cistern.
4. Replace the inlet valve. Generally preferred on is a Fluidmaster with brass threaded shank. Do it up tight, but don't overdo it.
5. Replace the "doughnut" washer which fits between the cistern and the back of the bowl.
6. Refit the bolts which go through the bottom of the cistern (or better still replace with a stainless steel set). Do them up loosely, then tighten one at a time about one turn per go to make sure cistern is level.
7. Refit the screws securing the cistern to the wall.
8. Reconnect the inlet pipe to the new valve, with a new fibre washer. Tighten up, but not enough to loosen the valve. Hold the valve while you tighten.
9. Turn the water back on and test.

What you will need from the plumber's merchant is a new doughnut washer, a new set of cistern securing bolts (optional), the new valve, and a 1/2" red fibre tap connector washer. Take the old doughnut washer with you as there are a fair number of variations.

Possible snags:

1. The cistern has been siliconed to the wall and / or the bowl. Cut through the silicone with a sharp kitchen / carving type knife.
2. You can't undo the cistern securing bolts. Drill out from inside.

Reads like the "Hayne's manual" of cistern dismantling.. In a laboratory with a brand new appliance and every special tool known to man.

 

[oldbuffer]

For the benefit of durhamplumber:

1. The last one of these I worked on did not have a hole on the other side of the cistern. Even if it had, I wouldn't have been able to get a spanner, even a box spanner, on it once assembled to the bowl..
2. I agree drilling out the bolts would be difficult. However, it might be the only option. Preference would be cut the nuts off from underside, but there might not be access. Can't tell without seeing in situ.
3. Done carefully there is no need to smash the tiles. Done it endless times and the worst result is having to polish the knife marks off the tiles.
4. My understanding was that this forum is broadly aimed at "Do it Yourselfer's", rather than those in the trade. If that's correct it would seem sensible to provide instructions as detailed as possible. I've been forced to retire from plumbing (hips and knees), so I've got the time to provide detailed descriptions.
5. Never done one in laboratory conditions. Last one was an eight year old WC in a tiny bathroom with just standard plumber's tools.

 

[Newboy]

easier just to take blank out of other side

It's not a blank in a cistern in the photo, it's a hole in the flat section of the pan that the cistern sits on - whoever designed a close-coupled pan/cistern like this (and there are a few around) needs to be shot. It's crazy having to take the cistern off to get access to the floatvalve backnut.

 

[durhamplumber]

It's not a blank in a cistern in the photo, it's a hole in the flat section of the pan that the cistern sits on - whoever designed a close-coupled pan/cistern like this (and there are a few around) needs to be shot. It's crazy having to take the cistern off to get access to the floatvalve backnut.

I agree.I was not reffering to photo..just that usually there is option for left or right connection of fill valve

 

[durhamplumber]

For the benefit of durhamplumber:

1. The last one of these I worked on did not have a hole on the other side of the cistern. Even if it had, I wouldn't have been able to get a spanner, even a box spanner, on it once assembled to the bowl..
2. I agree drilling out the bolts would be difficult. However, it might be the only option. Preference would be cut the nuts off from underside, but there might not be access. Can't tell without seeing in situ.
3. Done carefully there is no need to smash the tiles. Done it endless times and the worst result is having to polish the knife marks off the tiles.
4. My understanding was that this forum is broadly aimed at "Do it Yourselfer's", rather than those in the trade. If that's correct it would seem sensible to provide instructions as detailed as possible. I've been forced to retire from plumbing (hips and knees), so I've got the time to provide detailed descriptions.
5. Never done one in laboratory conditions. Last one was an eight year old WC in a tiny bathroom with just standard plumber's tools.

How many times did you smash stuff to perfect your techniques dude!!?..

 

[durhamplumber]

The last one of these I worked on did not have a hole on the other side of the cistern.

Unlucky ..mine did.