WC Cistern in Loft?

[nthused]

Hi,

I will refurbing the bathroom this year. I plan to use a wall hung WC pan and want to avoid having to use a proprietory cistern/frame system at pan level- including the slimline wall mounted variants.

To do this I'm looking to install the cistern immediately above the pan up in the loft space. The plumbing will be concealed behind a removeable panel or via a false wall (only if the pipe is one piece from the cistern) and the cistern will be fully lagged to prevent any freezing. Flushing will be done remotely and obviously controlled from within the bathroom.

My hope is that the combination of the wall hung pan, the flush water seemingly appearing from nowhere and controlled by a remote button, will be quite a nice touch.

Anybody see any problems with this, either technically or regulation wise?

 

[dextrous]

Nothing I'm aware of in the regs will prevent this from being acceptable.
The only problem I envisage will be if the height of the cistern creates a flush that is too powerful in that water sprays out over the sides of the pan.

 

[nthused]

Thanks Dextrous.

Assuming the water did not splash over the sides of the bowl this would be quite a good effect then, providing a more powerful flush. I guess I could limit the flow somehow at the cistern end (partially obstruct the downpipe), if things got out of hand!...

 

[TicklyT]

I have seen it done, but the WC cistern was very close to the eaves, and used to freeze in the winter

The setup had something looking like a penny washer sandwiched between the cistern outlet and the flush pipe as a flow restrictor.

Sometimes pushing the flush pipe further into the back of the pan can modify the flow from the cistern.

 

[Agile]

It may help the installation and to restrict the flow rate to use a smaller size pipe for the flush.

Tony

 

[nthused]

Cheers all for your comments.

I may have to put some pretty heavy duty lagging around the cistern then to stop freezing, as it probably will be tight into the eaves.

I did think about a smaller bore flush pipe but I would have to experiment with this first, in case it restricted the flow too much and then I'd be up the creek without a paddle.

 

[Ookysoft]

*Wonders how you got on with this* Did a smaller-bore pipe do the trick or another flow-constraint mechanism?

 

[nthused]

- ookysoft,

I've not got round to it yet. This will be an "autumn" project - too much work to do outside in the garden at the moment! I'll update when I've done it - with any issues and how I overcame them (hopefully).

 

[RigidRaider]

If this looks too difficult, have a look at Geberit's plastic concealed cistern. We are installing our third in the house and they are slim and work very well. I hide mine inside a stud frame, which is covered with plasterboard and skimmed then I bolt the pan (Laufen Compact pro - very small and neat) to the front. The box containing the cistern ends up about 120mm wide.

 

[nthused]

Thanks Rigidraider,

I'll bear this in mind. It might come to this if it's going to be too awkward to do from the loft. To be honest, the concealed cistern route is the one I will probably end up going down as the loft idea might be too ambitious.

In any case, I'll design the bathroom for either config so if it ends up in the loft it will be a bonus.

 

[nthused]

Just out of interest RigidRaider, what are you bolting the WC pan on to?

Do you not have a proprietary frame set into your stud wall to provide adequate strength/stability for the pan to hang off?

 

[RigidRaider]

In each case the stud framework has been bolted to a solid wall. In the upstairs en-suite and the family bathoom we were extremely conscious of the problem of sound transmission from the WC pan through the floor to the kitchen/dining room below. It would certainly have been easier and quicker to use a steel frame standing on the floor but they cost money, we thought the sound would probably transmit through the feet and I've yet to see one, which doesn't move a little when weight is applied. My frames are extremely solid, screwed and glued together and 4 years down the line there's no sign of movement or creaking sound. The suspended pan allows proper cleaning, the floor looks uncluttered and you could remove the floor and leave the pan just suspended there. The Geberit cistern costs about £65 if you shop around and works very quietly. The slate lid can be removed for access to the internals or the stop valve. For the first one we boarded and plastered but the second has a laminated board screwed on for easy removal and access.

Here are some pics:

Downstairs cloakroom in smelly and dingy condition with soil pipe strangely routed beside and forward of the pan:

Downstairs frame:

Upstairs frame:

Finished cloakroom:

 

[nthused]

Thats spot on RigidRaider.

I had the idea to do something similar and you have now confirmed it can be done. There is nothing wrong with using timber if the design is robust enough.

The end result looks excellent and at much less cost I bet!

 

[RigidRaider]

Almost no cost at all if you use bits of timber you saved from a stud wall and bolts and threaded bar from a local fixings supplier.

Flippin' time consuming though! It looks simple but gets more difficult when you're dealing with a wall that's out of true in two directions.

It helps to get the pan manufacturer's drawing and make a cardboard template to help you get the positions right for the flush pipe relative to the two studs and the soil pipe.