What is a new circuit under Part P regulations?

[ericmark]

The BS7671:2008 states

Circuit. An assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s).

This would clearly include a fuse connection unit feeding a series of sockets which it would seem is not considered as a new circuit under Part P rules but since Part P does not publish a definitions there is nothing to refer to.

So with a fully populated consumer unit adding for example a cable connected to the ring MCB and feeding a single socket would not be a new circuit but an extension to an existing one.

However if the MCB was not being used then is it already a circuit or not? I would say it was not but it is an assembly of electrical equipment even if only one MCB so not so sure!

Clearly inserting a MCB into a vacant slot is making a new circuit but often CU are bought fully populated so one is not adding a MCB at best one changes a MCB.

If we look at the work and risks involved there is more risk adding to a MCB already in use to adding to one as yet unused so to say to some one if you use that B16 MCB which is vacant you need to pay the LABC and notify but if you used that B32 MCB already used for the ring you don't need to notify seems daft.

Many members of this forum are members of schemes where they have to pay a fee although small for every job they submit to the scheme operator so one would assume they would not want to submit work which does not require submitting. Also one would assume the scheme operators will have sent instructions with the new English regulations as to what now needs sending in.

So I will give an example. In an integral garage where the consumer unit is in the garage for whole house a socket is required for the garage. So if you put the socket butted up to the consumer unit i.e. 15 minutes work and connected to spare B16 MCB in the consumer unit would you send this work into the scheme operator?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I think in your example as there is not really a circuit existing, as cable would be required to construct a circuit, that it would be deemed a new circuit.
So I would notify.

 

[securespark]

Yup. A circuit cannot be solely a CPD, as the definition of circuit includes an overcurrent protective device.

It also defines circuit as an assembly, meaning there are several components.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The BS7671:2008 states

Circuit. An assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s).

This would clearly include a fuse connection unit feeding a series of sockets

And the definition of "origin" is.....?

 

[ericmark]

The BS7671:2008 states

Circuit. An assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s).

This would clearly include a fuse connection unit feeding a series of sockets

And the definition of "origin" is.....?

So what you are saying since the all come form the same DNO fuse then all in the house is one circuit as it comes from same origin?

What I am saying is since the Part P regulations don't follow the BS7671:2008 definitions it is impossible to with certainty work out what is allowed. With the old Part P everything was reportable except for a list of exceptions so if not on list you had to report so there was little room to wangle out of reporting. However with new rules it has been reversed and unless listed you don't need to report as a result definitions become really important.

I would have said any work inside a distribution unit but that is not how it is phrased. I think that is how it should have been phrased but as it is if an electrician decides not to report work it would be up to the courts to decide and likely unless the work is sub-standard not reporting is unlikely to result in a court case.

In real terms to renew the consumer unit clearly needs notifying but it would be very hard to show that work within an existing consumer unit has to be notified which in real terms means people will not spend out money when they can get away with it. The fact that there is no extra danger in connecting a cable to a MCB not already in use to connecting a cable to a MCB in use it is unlikely a court would be interested.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So what you are saying since the all come form the same DNO fuse then all in the house is one circuit as it comes from same origin?

No, because the DNO fuse is protecting the upstream cable.

What I am saying is since the Part P regulations don't follow the BS7671:2008 definitions it is impossible to with certainty work out what is allowed.

One could always fall back on the old idea of everyday meanings, and whether the average person would consider a fused spur a new circuit or not.

The fact that there is no extra danger in connecting a cable to a MCB not already in use to connecting a cable to a MCB in use it is unlikely a court would be interested.

There never used to be any more danger in adding lights in a kitchen compared to adding them in a living room either.