What price to charge for bespoke shelving & how to mount?

[JT101]

Hi. I've been asked to create something similar to what you would call a "floating billy", which is essentially a wall mounted bookcase without a back (see image below). It will be made out of a single sheet of 18mm beech ply i.e. the really noice grade which I believe will cost me about £50, then I have all the fittings and brackets so let's say another £30. This is my first private job like this, so I'll be a bit slow, so assuming it'll take me a couple of days. I'm planning to route grooves in the side panels to recieve the horizontal shelves, and also in the corners. I want it too look professional. The job is in south east London / Kent and the shelving will be used to store 1500 cds. It will be mounted at the top of the wall and stretch the entire width of the room at the top, and sits above a piano, so I do not want it falling off the wall! It will be quite a bit of weight but is fixing into a brick work stud wall.

So my two questions

1) What sort of ball park figure to charge for the job?

2) How to mount it? THe likes of IKEA don't seem to sell such a thing, but from what I've seen online some people use heavy duty angle brackets like the sabre fix 60 x 50mm brackets, and others use pins that slot into holes in the back of the shelves. I was thinking of using both the heavy duty brackets and the pins.
I suppose alternatively I could run thin battens underneath each shelf just above the CDs, say 25 x 25mm


Cheers

 

[big-all]

first point
will they be happy with a joint at around 8ft ??

i would personally have a divider every 14-18" this will both stop cds falling over if not tightly packed for the whole shelve and allow you to tie the shelves together allowing fewer supports
i would make it in 2 or 3 sections this allows easier construction greater use off the length as in you can use the full width with about 6mm for clearance and in the future you have flexibility to alter the capacity or move it to a new location reconfigured for that room
the cds need to stick out a bit so you can grab them or iff set back you need enough gap to get your finger in to hook it out

 

[flameport]

Without a back, the shelves will sag massively, the long ones probably will even before anything is placed on them. With 1500 CDs on it, failure and collapse is inevitable.
It needs a back made of similar thickness material with the shelves rebated into it for their full length.

 

[skenk]

yes you'll need a back or dividers at least or the shelves will sag, how are you proposing to extend the 2.4m length of ply into 3.4m? How is it being finished and who is doing that? (you?) Don't forget the glue, router bits and whatnot. The fabricators I work with would make this up in the workshop then mount to wall (or part-make in the workshop if too long to get into the room in one piece). 3.4m lengths will be a major pain to install at height on your own. So say one day workshop £250+ plus 1/2 day for 2 people on site £250+ = £500+materials+contingency if a fixed price + finishing (oiling or whatever) if you're doing that (and finishing can be time consuming..)

 

[Gerrydelasel]

This may be of some vague interest:
https://burnleyhouse.wordpress.com/2016/05/11/building-a-fitted-bookcase-part-1/

 

[JT101]

Wow, that's great everyone. Some real good advice, and saved me making a real cock up on the price. Yes I would be doing the whole thing from start to finish. The existing beech plywood shelving they have looks like it got some sort of a sheen, so I would imagine it's been varnished. Would you recommend oil instead then? And what type? Or could I use clear varnish on ply? Cheers

 

[big-all]

in your plan you have 145mm between shelves what size are the boxes ??
do they need storage for over 1500 discs [assuming 10mm]??

 

[Dave54]

in your plan you have 145mm between shelves what size are the boxes ??
do they need storage for over 1500 discs [assuming 10mm]??

Good point b-a. I've just put a pair of callipers on a jewel case, and they're 125 mm near enough "tall" and just over 10mm thick on the spine. 10.2 mm in the case of the one measured here.

When I've made CD storage, I've left just under a full disk case space in each "box", to stop the people jamming them in. Anything with "multiples of" is worth stacking ten or twenty and measuring the result.

For what it's worth, I always used to make a proper scaled drawing of the piece and a proper cutting list for every job. Even straight forward ones. Personally I'd want a better sketch to show the client as well. Send the scaled drawings with dimensions and the sketch to the client for their approval in writing. Not an "OK" on the phone. I'd also state that the shelves were made to hold an estimated how ever many CDs in such and such size cases.

Put everything in writing for their approval.

Time gets away from you on even the smallest jobs. Site visits, research, drawings, quotes, correspondence, material ordering, the list goes on.

Also materials. Get an actual quote for the material, delivery and so on before doing your own quote for the client.

Finally don't assume that rooms and walls are square, and measurements will be the same at different heights. They won't!

 

[big-all]

other things to keep in mind
how would you transport a 1mx3.4m [3ft3"x 11ft2"]to site as it will be quite fragile
it would need three people working in tandem if it has no back on to give rigidity
you will need a fairly clear run with 90% turns causing problems even stopping you getting in
is there a hallway behind the door under the shelving ??
if its at 90%you may hit the side wall/ceilling in the room before you clear the door
if your room is less than about 3m from door to far wall you wont have enough room to get it in
if its between walls you will need about 20-30mm clearance to get it in diagonally in a horizontal plain

 

[JT101]

Thanks again guys. Some good points to consider, especially about sending the drawing. I could quickly model something on sketchup.

So in answer to your question big-all, yeah a cd measures as Dave 54 said, about 125mm high by 140mm deep and 10mm thick. THe client said they wanted to be able to pull the cd from above, so we have a 20mm gap to get your finger in. I agree a thick back, with shelves rebated in it would definitely work, but the sheer size of it, and logisitics of mounting it are tricky, plus it would weigh an awful lot. I'm thinking do it without a back, but have staggered dividers as skenk suggested to stop it sagging. I could feasibly make it 152mm hieght between shelves, and have a 25x25mm batten running the length of each shelf fixed into the wall. You wouldn't see it once the cd's are in. Then a series of those heavy duty angle brackets and then fixed at each end into the adjacent walls.
Does anyone see any major problems with that approach?

I know it's a lot of weight, but if you look at some floating bookcases online which carry quite a bit of weight or even kitchen cupboarfds that have loads of plates in them, carry a large load, and literally only have 2 or 4 brackets.
However, definitely better to be safe than sorry, especially since this whole lot could come crqashing down on his head as he plays the piano!

 

[big-all]

you have to make it 2 parts any way or at least have a join so why not just make it in 2 or 3 bits ??
the backing can be 3mm thick rebated in

remember its actually 3 times longer than it looks in your drawing

 

[Gerrydelasel]

You could drill into the wall every metre or so and sink thin metal bars into it (e.g. bolts with the heads cut off) and the shelves could locate onto them, giving the appearance of no support. Same thing if you have a wood back, but you could use dowels instead.

 

[JT101]

Yeah could use anchor resin with bolts I suppose.

So Big All, just to clarify, are you saying the backing is 3mm thick? And so I'm only rebating in say 1mm?

I feel confident with the construction now, I'm more concerned about fixing it. I'll use a backing, and I'll use dividers every couple of feet to prevent sagging and tie it all together, but for fixing I'd rather go belt and braces. Gerrydelasel has suggested what are essentially floating shelf brackets, but does anyone else want to chime in with what they would use and how many?

THanks

 

[big-all]

i would rebate 3mm x 7mm but only the outer edges before you assemble then all the internals 3mm [or what ever thickness you choose ]less in depth
i would have dividers as i said before i would build in 2 or 3 sections

 

[JT101]

Hello Big Al
I've taken all your fantastic comments into consideration, and hopefully this design takes it all into account. In image Shelving 2e, you'll see I've split it into two boxes. I may put more supports in, but I will try to get away with as few as possible.

However, I'm a little unsure on the joints. Looking at some designs online, it seems everyone uses a different method e.g. biscuits, dowel, tongue & groove, half lap or even butt joints.

In my image 2f, I've labelled a few different examples. I would think it would be better to go with joint 1 rather than 2, so that I can pin or screw each support, before inserting the next one. But from a weight perspective, I would think the shorter shelves using joint 2 may be better.
Joint 3 I'm sure is fine. Joint 4, maybe the rebate should be the other way round, but I don't suppose it makes a lot of difference.

And finally image 2h, I assume I've understood you correctly. This is a 6mm sheet of backing ply, with routed slots 3mm deep, and 7mm wide on the outer frame as you mentioned.

I can then just use brackets or fix directly through the backing board into the wall in various places with screws and rawl plugs
Cheers