What's allowed

[mrsplodge]

We're doing a whole bunch of renovation on our house, and we keep being let down by electricians either not answering the phone, not turning up to give us a quote, or coming to look and not sending us a quote for the work. Meanwhile, other stuff is moving along and we've got plasterers etc already booked, so need to get at least some of the work done before they start.

My question is, what is it I'm allowed to do? Ideally we'd get someone in because I don't really have the time to do it, but if all else fails I can. I'm just not sure what is allowed and what needs to be done by a registered electrician. And if I do some of the work, do I need to write myself a minor works certificate or notify the council or something?

Just looking for a simple yes / no on what's allowed and if anything needs applying for or inspecting to make it all above board. The main things that need doing are:

- New ring main and lighting circuit for the garage. I've already had to partially run the cable to get that done before the garage was plastered. It now needs running through the rest of the house and connecting to the consumer unit.
- Replace sockets. Either change existing doubles for new or convert some singles to doubles
- Add new sockets into existing ring
- Move light fittings and switches
- Add new wall lights
- Replace ceiling lights with led downlights
- Add new light switches

This is all in bedrooms / living room, so no work in kitchen or bathrooms. We've had an EICR that says the current wiring is fine and can be extended with what we want.

 

[CBW]

Notifiable or Non Notifiable

Non notifiable works is as its suggests. This type of electrical work does not need notifying to your local building control. Also know as a minor works! When you complete a non notifiable electrical job within a property you still have an obligation to yourself and the customer to leave them...

mjelectricaltraining.co.uk

Frequently Asked Questions - Electrical

electrical.theiet.org

Not sure if any of these are of use to you?

 

[thomp1983]

You can do all of that without any notification except for wiring the new ring final and light circuits to the consumer unit.

Depending on what you plan to use your garage for there's ways around it, you may find it difficult to get an electrician to sign off a cable you've already ran and plastered over

 

[mrsplodge]

Thanks. I might be able to run the cable through the floor joists instead of plastering in, so I guess being able to lift the floorboards to inspect the cable would help with sign off. In the garage, it's just the ceiling that was plastered, so I had to run the cables in the ceiling void before it was boarded. At a push you can squeeze through and crawl around the void to inspect them if needed. Hopefully that'd help with sign off.

There are a couple of lighting and alarm cables clipped to the walls going up the inside of some built in wardrobes. The plasterer is starting on those rooms in a couple of weeks, so I'm thinking it'd be best to pull these back, run some conduit and run them back in the conduit, as that'd give me the ability to add new wiring after the plastering is done.

 

[ericmark]

The LABC inspector has to decide if you have the skill, if he thinks you do have the skill, then you can do it all, however the LABC charges can mean not worth DIY and you need to say before you start that work will be done by a non scheme member.

I did it once, the charge was £100 plus vat for first £2000 worth of work in Wales, England has different charges and you can do more without telling the LABC in England to Wales.

Where the problem arose was they can insist a third party does inspection and testing and they select who does it, but you pay, so it can cost even more money, I seem to remember the LABC is given 14 days to inspect at each stage, this was also a problem as one can be sitting there twiddling ones thumbs waiting for the inspection.

Even with work which does not require the LABC to be notified, if it is part of other work that is notifiable, then they can still require a compliance certificate before they will issue the completion certificate, I got caught out, did not realise changing the use of a room to or from a kitchen or bathroom needs notifying.

I would think by time you have jumped through all the hoops set, it will be no faster than getting a scheme member to do the work.

 

[flameport]

Just looking for a simple yes / no on what's allowed and if anything needs applying for or inspecting to make it all above board. The main things that need doing are:

Anyone can install any of those things provided they are competent to do so.
Only the new circuit is notifiable, the rest is not.

Notification in itself does not change who is 'allowed' to do any of the work, only that it must be notified.

All of it should be inspected (mostly while installing it) and all of it should be tested before it is connected to the electricity supply. Appropriate certificate(s) should be completed for all of it.

what needs to be done by a registered electrician.

None of it.
What do you believe a 'registered electrician' is?

guess being able to lift the floorboards to inspect the cable would help with sign off.

What do you mean by 'sign off', who do you imagine would be doing that and when, and what do you expect to receive when that process is completed?

 

[mrsplodge]

All of it should be inspected (mostly while installing it) and all of it should be tested before it is connected to the electricity supply. Appropriate certificate(s) should be completed for all of it.

What do you mean by 'sign off', who do you imagine would be doing that and when, and what do you expect to receive when that process is completed

This is what I meant by "sign off". Who should be inspecting it? And what are the "appropriate certificates"? Who issues them?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Who should be inspecting it?

Whoever installed it or someone else who knows how.

And what are the "appropriate certificates"?

Electrical Installation Certificate or Electrical Installation Minor Works Certificate depending on the extent of the work.

Who issues them?

Whoever installed the works or someone who has supervised throughout and knows it is alright.


Fundamentally it means that absolutely anyone can be an 'electrician' but obviously that person must know what to do and how to do it.




Regarding the 'notification process' mentioned above; strictly speaking this is supposed to be done before the work is started but we seem to have realised recently that the Local Authority are not as diligent as they should be and wouldn't know that was not the case.

 

[mrsplodge]

So if I'm doing the work, then should I be issuing the installation certificate / minor works certificate?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes - or, as I said, someone supervising who knows how to do it.

Will you be doing the gas work yourself or is that more difficult than just a few wires?

 

[mrsplodge]

There's no gas work needs doing, plus I think you need to be Gas Safe registered for any gas work don't you?

Thanks for all the help. So what I've gathered from the replies:

- For the new circuits to the garage, this is notifiable work so I should notify the local authority. Once done, I should complete an Electrical Installation Certificate
- For all the other work, it's non notifiable, so I can do it then complete a minor works certificate.

 

[ericmark]

Each edition of BS 7671 says something like

The Regulations are non-statutory. They may, however, be used in a court of law in evidence to
claim compliance with a statutory requirement. The relevant statutory provisions are listed in Appendix 2 and
include Acts of Parliament and Regulations made thereunder. In some cases statutory Regulations may be
accompanied by Codes of Practice approved under Section 16 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974. The
legal status of these Codes is explained in Section 17 of the 1974 Act.
For a supply given in accordance with the Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002, it shall be
deemed that the connection with Earth of the neutral of the supply is permanent. Outside England, Scotland and
Wales, confirmation shall be sought from the distributor that the supply conforms to requirements corresponding to
those of the Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002, in this respect. Where the ESQCR do not
apply, equipment for isolation and switching shall be selected accordingly as specified in Chapter 53.

So making out certificates as required by BS 7671 is not law. The idea of Part P was to allow the same legal teeth as with the Health and Safety at Work, but English law is in the main case law, and to state what is or is not allowed with any certainty is hard.

However if anyone is injured as a result of your workmanship you will likely end up in court. The case with a poor EICR was fought by consumer protection, and what qualifications you have does matter. It is the same with other things as well, if my wife sells a car which is in a dangerous condition she is likely to get a lower fine than if I sold the same car, as I have qualifications. OK stopped working on motor vehicles some 40 plus years ago, but I have the qualifications so I should know better.

With the Ema Short case the electricians mate was found not guilty as he did not have the skill, even when he made the errors.

Turning a blind eye is not permitted either, if I see oil spilt and do nothing, and some one latter is injured it is my fault, clearly if I don't admit seeing it then hard to do anything, but human nature is one blurts out yes there was oil on the floor I saw it earlier. And you need to report in writing, verbal is not good enough, text, email, back or fag packet, but needs to be in writing.

In the main writing out a minor works or installation certificate acts as a check sheet, ensuring you do test what is required, the forms are a free down load, I would suggest you down load them and see if you can fill them in, if not you should not do the work.

 

[EFLImpudence]

There's no gas work needs doing, plus I think you need to be Gas Safe registered for any gas work don't you?

Depends.

- For the new circuits to the garage, this is notifiable work so I should notify the local authority.

Yes.

Once done, I should complete an Electrical Installation Certificate

Yes.

- For all the other work, it's non notifiable, so I can do it then complete a minor works certificate.

The type of certificate relates to the type of work; not whether it is notifiable or not.

 

[JohnW2]

So making out certificates as required by BS 7671 is not law.

Indeed, it is not 'law'.

The idea of Part P was to allow the same legal teeth as with the Health and Safety at Work, but English law is in the main case law, and to state what is or is not allowed with any certainty is hard.

Case Law is about the interpretation of laws (as written) by Courts. As I understand it, a Court cannot invent legal requirements (such as the provision of certificates) which is not in any way mentioned in the law as written. Only changes in the legislation could achieve that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[cdbe]

Not an electrician but I do non notifiable work on my house, I was unaware of the requirement to issue myself with a certificate. Do I have to keep the certificate, or show it to anyone, seems a bit pointless?

For the OP, surely just find a spark to do the notifiable (garage) work and DIY the rest, within your level of competence. Obviously the garage only needs the basic new circuit(s) which you can DIY extend at your leisure.