When Does A Circuit Get Energised?

[Geps]

Hi,

I'm rewiring my house and having informed LABC there are three steps:
1) BCO First Fix Inspection
2) Testing (will be getting an electrician in to conduct a PIR)
3) BCO final inspection and test

If the PIR comes back that it's a safe and satisfactory installation can I energise the circuit then?

Cheers,

 

[Taylortwocities]

Testing includes tests with the circuit not energised (dead tests)
and live tests.
Live testing has to be carried out to confirm EFLI, RCD and functional testing.

I would expect the circuit would be energised after the sucessful completion of item 2.

 

[Electrifying]

The electrician will energise the circuits as and when he is ready - i.e. after completion of the necessary dead tests and confirmation of Ze and supply polarity.

Whether or not the council inspectors/testers will be happy returning for a 'second fix' inspection/test and finding an 'energised' installation is a different matter.

Additionally, you can't really do a PIR on an installation that hasn't had an 'Initial Verification' yet!

 

[Paul_C]

Whether or not the council inspectors/testers will be happy returning for a 'second fix' inspection/test and finding an 'energised' installation is a different matter.

Whether they're happy or not is immaterial, since they have no say in the matter as to when it's energized.

 

[Electrifying]

Whether or not the council inspectors/testers will be happy returning for a 'second fix' inspection/test and finding an 'energised' installation is a different matter.

Whether they're happy or not is immaterial, since they have no say in the matter as to when it's energized.

I would assume that the council appointed 'inspector/testers' would want to follow the same procedure that us 'registered' sparks do for initial verification of an installation - i.e. dead tests prior to energising, followed by live testing.

If not, then they are performing a PIR themselves, and not an 'Initial Verification'.

So, who's performing the initial verification on this rewire and issuing the EIC????

 

[Paul_C]

I would assume that the council appointed 'inspector/testers' would want to follow the same procedure that us 'registered' sparks do for initial verification of an installation - i.e. dead tests prior to energising, followed by live testing.

So they can de-energize it to do the dead tests, then re-energize it. I can't see why that should make them unhappy!

 

[Electrifying]

So they can de-energize it to do the dead tests, then re-energize it. I can't see why that should make them unhappy!

No, but like I said - that makes it a PIR.......not an initial verification....so no EIC!

They would be inspecting/testing an in-service installation, so it could only be a PIR.

 

[Geps]

Thanks, although I'm abit worried by the response, as it sounds like it'll be confusing to explain to someone exactly what I need to the electrician!

Whether or not the council inspectors/testers will be happy returning for a 'second fix' inspection/test and finding an 'energised' installation is a different matter.

Whether they're happy or not is immaterial, since they have no say in the matter as to when it's energized.

I would assume that the council appointed 'inspector/testers' would want to follow the same procedure that us 'registered' sparks do for initial verification of an installation - i.e. dead tests prior to energising, followed by live testing.

If not, then they are performing a PIR themselves, and not an 'Initial Verification'.

So, who's performing the initial verification on this rewire and issuing the EIC????

I'm pretty sure an EIC isn't issued - I'm the one who's designing it, and a separate person (electrician) will be testing + energising, and a BCO will be rubber stamping it. The BCO wants me to have BS7671 test results which they can then verify, hence me getting an electrician in to do a PIR (I could do it myself but after I've hired the tools and booked the day off work I may as well get a professional!)

As for your other comment, I was going to do it where they turn up, carry out the dead tests and they energise it themselves. I wasn't planning on energising it myself hence it won't be an inservice installation.

The guidelines sheet as issued by the council states they want "a periodic inspection certificate will be issued as BS7671 guidelines" [by the person testing it].

PS if there are any electricians in Birmingham who'd like to carry out the PIR/testing PM me

 

[Electrifying]

As for your other comment, I was going to do it where they turn up, carry out the dead tests and they energise it themselves. I wasn't planning on energising it myself hence it won't be an inservice installation.

If your electrician is performing all necessary tests for the 'PIR' (your 'step 2'), then he will have to energise the installation to complete those tests.

When the council appointed electrician turns up (your 'step 3'), it will be an in-service installation.

If you say the council will accept BS7671 forms, from your electrician, for the 'Inspection/Test' of the installation, then there's nothing wrong with your electrician issuing an EIC and just completing the I & T section as his responsibility.

 

[sparkticus]

I don't have my PIR or EIC certs in front of me but I suspect that the PIR will not be as comprehensive as an initial verification. For example, the Zs values may not be compared to the max allowed by BS7671 etc.

As mentioned I don't have my certs here with me and may be wrong.
True that a PIR can be as comprehensive as you like but If you can inspect and test then my advice to you is hire a multifunctional and complete an initial verification yourself. You can google and download a BS7671 model form. Presumably you have done the inspection which is an integral part of the installation procedures so the actual testing should only take 2 - 3 hours assuming you don't live in a castle.

 

[Electrifying]

Thanks, although I'm abit worried by the response, as it sounds like it'll be confusing to explain to someone exactly what I need to the electrician!

I'm the one who's designing it, and a separate person (electrician) will be testing + energising, and a BCO will be rubber stamping it. The BCO wants me to have BS7671 test results which they can then verify, hence me getting an electrician in to do a PIR (I could do it myself but after I've hired the tools and booked the day off work I may as well get a professional!)

Hi again,

I'm not sure about the other schemes, but if you get a NAPIT registered spark and tell him that you require 'third party' Inspection and Testing.

Napit allow this under their scheme, and the electrician completes an EIC, a Schedule of Test Results and a Schedule of Inspections - as he would for his own installation.

The only difference is he can only sign off the I & T box on the EIC, and he'll probably want to see the first fix as well.

He cannot 'notify' this work through NAPIT, either, as he didn't install it.

The certificates that he issues should be sufficient for your LBC, though.

 

[Stoday]

If you want an installation that complies with BS7671 then you have to complete an EIC.

You can copy the EIC model form from Appendix B of Approved Document part P. There are two EICs, one for one person to complete the whole installation and the other where different persons complete the Design, Construction and Inspection/testing. They sign the appropriate boxes.

As Electrifying says, you can sign off the first two boxes leaving your testing electrician to sign the third. Nothing to do with a PIR which is not appropriate for a new installation.

The testing electrician may or may not be registered for part P; that's irrelevant; notification cannot be avoided because you have completed some of the work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Without qualifications how do you get the council to agree that you are competent to sign parts 1 & 2?

 

[Geps]

As mentioned I don't have my certs here with me and may be wrong.
True that a PIR can be as comprehensive as you like but If you can inspect and test then my advice to you is hire a multifunctional and complete an initial verification yourself. You can google and download a BS7671 model form. Presumably you have done the inspection which is an integral part of the installation procedures so the actual testing should only take 2 - 3 hours assuming you don't live in a castle.

I think I'm going to have to do that as it all seems confusing!

 

[Geps]

Without qualifications how do you get the council to agree that you are competent to sign parts 1 & 2?

That's why I'm confused about the EIC and how it gets issued....