Where to buy a Kidd VHE 1 gas boiler?

[stonehouse]

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...e-kidd-are-still-trading.458321/#post-3639388

Hi, my first post.

I'm confused by the thread above. Who passed away? I think the founder was Archie Kidd whereas Adam Kidd was his son, wasn't he? Are both deceased now?

I wish to buy a Kidd VHE 1 natural gas boiler. Am I dreaming? I rang the number but no answer. Does anyone here know whether a next-of-kin (Wife?) have any new old stock left in the factory?

Regards.

 

[stonehouse]

Is there an alternative (cast iron HX) to the Kidd boiler?

Is this Hamworthy product any good?

https://www.hamworthy-heating.com/commercial-boilers/purewell-variheat-condensing-boiler

The smallest size available is 70kW, which is a bit big for my house. I was thinking maximum 30 or 40kW.

Would something like an Atag A-series (stainless steel EX) be more practical? (to be located in the cellar)

Regards.

 

[muggles]

Yep, both dead. With the ever increasing regulation on boiler manufacture they were getting left behind a bit anyway. Why did you want a Kidd over other boilers more readily available? What did it have that you felt made it special? Just the cast HX?

Have a look at Intergas - injection-moulded aluminium surrounding copper waterways with outputs up to 40kW. 20 years using the same design without a single heat exchanger failure

 

[stonehouse]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, just the cast iron HX. Also because the Kidd boiler was one of the very few (the only one?) condensing boiler brands that could have a flue up the chimney.

Intergas sounds interesting. I'll take a look at their website for more info.

By the way, that Hamworthy boiler is modulating type and has upto 3.3:1 turndown, which probably means it modulates between 21kW and 70kW (correct me if I'm wrong)

I will be using cast iron 'school' radiators and I think they require more power than domestic pressed-steel radiators, don't they?

Regards.

 

[muggles]

As it happens, Intergas can be installed with a chimney kit up to 10m long if that's a requirement of your installation. The SB40's turndown ratio is 6.5:1, and at 42kW max output it's perfectly suited to your house if your calculation of required output is correct.

Cast iron radiators need no more power than any other type. Search for Whole House Boiler Sizing to see what size boiler you actually need. Radiators should be sized to the room they're being fitted in, so a 1.5kW steel panel radiator is the same as a 1.5kW cast radiator. Size up for low flow temperatures (IE bigger radiators) for maximum efficiency.

 

[D_Hailsham]

I will be using cast iron 'school' radiators and I think they require more power than domestic pressed-steel radiators, don't they?

A 1kW cast iron rad needs exactly the same power as a 1kW steel rad.

The size of boiler is not determined by the total radiator output but by the heat loss from the house. If the heat loss is greater than rad total, you will need additional rads. If the heat loss is less than rad total, that's no problem as the system will run at a lower temperature, so each rad gives off less heat.

You can get an idea of the heat loss from your house by using an online calculator such as

Baxi Whole House Boiler Size Calculator

 

[stonehouse]

Thanks for the heads up. So, I tried the calculation with the The Whole house boiler calculator and the result was about 32kW. Would 35 or 40kW boiler be suitable?

So, I've reading more about Intergas and compared it with Atag. Both are Dutch. The prices and details from Plumbcenter are as followings:

Intergas HRE SB40 (injection-moulded aluminium surrounding copper HX)
£1,011
Warranty 2 years (10 years on HX)
Max. system pressure cold - 3 bar

Atag Q38 system (stainless steel HX)
£1,707
Warranty 5 years
Max. system pressure cold - 1.5 bar

It seems that the Intergas uses less moving parts therefore less things can go wrong. Don't know about the Atag. So, my question is why the Atag is £700 more expensive and why the Intergas has twice as much cold system pressure?

As I wish to use wide diameter plumbing for my cast iron radiators, would the higher pressure one (Intergas) be more appropriate?
TIA

 

[muggles]

You actually get 7 years warranty on the Intergas, not 2.

Pipe size has no bearing on system pressure, and the type of radiator used shouldn't have a bearing on pipe size either. 1.2-1.5 bar is fairly standard cold pressure for a heating system, and pipes should be sized to the required heat output

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

AFAIK the large bore piping traditionally used with Hospital Radiators was to facilitate the use of 'one pipe' or gravity systems. With a modern, 2 pipe, pumped system, smaller bore pipework should be more than adequate, sized to needs of the system.

 

[stonehouse]

OK thanks guys for the clarification.

From the reading the brochures, it seems that the Atag models (both A and Q series, but not iS series) has more flue options than Intergas. If you look at the link below and scroll down to page 2, there are diagrams with many flue options especially with regard to air intake:

http://www.atagcommercial.co.uk/media/1671368/atag a series 6pp-v2.pdf

So, I'm now leaning more to Atag.

My next question: Does anyone here know what's the difference between A and Q series?


TIA

 

[Dan Robinson]

Intergas are as flexible, but you need an installer that knows what's what. The A and Q boilers are good, but the HEX needs a pristine system. Or total hydraulic separation.

 

[muggles]

OK thanks guys for the clarification.

From the reading the brochures, it seems that the Atag models (both A and Q series, but not iS series) has more flue options than Intergas. If you look at the link below and scroll down to page 2, there are diagrams with many flue options especially with regard to air intake:

http://www.atagcommercial.co.uk/media/1671368/atag a series 6pp-v2.pdf

So, I'm now leaning more to Atag.

My next question: Does anyone here know what's the difference between A and Q series?


TIA

What flue arrangement do you need?

The Q series has higher outputs than the A-series, but both are decent. The ATAG iS series is made by a different company - ATAG Heating and ATAG Commercial are totally separate entities.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The ATAG iS series is made by a different company - ATAG Heating and ATAG Commercial are totally separate entities

*cough*


Made, or sold?

 

[muggles]

*cough*


Made, or sold?

Badged?

 

[bernardgreen]

You actually get 7 years warranty on the Intergas, not 2.

Or up to 15 years if you are installing for a Housing Association.

20 years using the same design without a single heat exchanger failure

From Intergas Press release

Innovation comes in the form of the boiler’s revolutionary heat exchanger – used in all Intergas models – which eliminates the need for a secondary domestic hot water plate heat exchanger, diverter valve and auto-air vent, which means there’s less to go wrong. In fact the heat exchanger has never had a mechanical failure since its manufacture 20 years ago.

The word mechanical seems to appear in every mention of no failures.

Or total hydraulic separation.

Mechanical failure = something breaks
Hydraulic failure = something leaks

There are a lot of soldered joints in the Intergas heat exchanger