Where to get energy for the future

[Deleted member 18243]

Don't worry, our government is really clever and will sort this crisis. Now they plan to generate electricity by burning some of the Chinese tat they spent billions on during the "covid" scam:

UK Government to Burn $11.4 Billion of Unusable PPE (breitbart.com)

It might have been easier to have just burned the money instead.

Oh wait, better idea: they should not have printed the money in the first place.

 

[ajohn]

The problem with the Severn as I see it is variable and not a continuous output. There is a variation in tide heights up and down. I sea fished in it for a number of years. An aspect not mentioned - it's associated with fish breeding especially in the winter months.

Wondering how wind works they deliver a relatively low DC voltage which with electronics and a transformer is boosted to a number of kV. Actual power available will vary with the wind. Maybe this is what nuclear is needed for.

The other point as well is net zero here. It may be locally but if imports are thrown in it wont be. Being first to do it is one thing but the impact on global CO2 production is another. That aspect is one I wonder about. Our impact on it will be small so we could time it over a period accounting for countries that have more of a problem doing it. Our problems are bad enough as it is without rushing things. Sweden wont find it easy. This outlines what they are doing
https://unfccc.int/sites/default/files/resource/LTS1_Sweden.pdf
They have been running down nuclear for some time

 

[Lower]

"In recent CfD auctions, strike prices as low as £39.65/MWh have been agreed for offshore wind projects"

cuts the ground from under the feet of nukes.

Except for the fact that the wind doesn't always blow but physics doesn't change.

Until we have a viable way to store electricity generated when the wind does blow, we're always going to need a back up source of generation.

 

[JohnD]

we've covered that.

Yes, it's a shame there's no way of moving electricity around the country from Dogger Bank or Cornwall or the Western Isles or the Scottish Highlands or the Yorkshire Moors or Norfolk. Somebody should run some cable around. We could call it the "National Grid"

Even better would be if it was possible to run cables to other countries with different weather. We could swap energy according to needs and availability. We could call them "Interconnects." Do you think there could ever be interconnects with, say, France, Holland and Ireland? And Norway? And Belgium? it would be great if we could find some way of forming a co-operative group of nations with common interests, ready to help each other for mutual benefit. Somebody ought to start one, and we could join.

In times to come, there might be places that have large expanses of empty land with guaranteed sunshine where solar panels could be installed in huge numbers. Do you think the Sahara is sunny?

What's the distance from Gibraltar to North Africa? Is it less than the distance our existing interconnects run?

 

[IT Minion]

The problem with the Severn as I see it is variable and not a continuous output. There is a variation in tide heights up and down. I sea fished in it for a number of years. An aspect not mentioned - it's associated with fish breeding especially in the winter months.

It's variable but predictable and also not connected to wind or solar levels. That means it's highly desirable. It also has potential to vary some of its power delivery rate on demand, which again makes it desirable.

I believe the fish breeding is mentioned if you dig through the reports, newspaper articles are always summaries.

 

[JohnD]

There are other bays and barrages where water can be stored until required to make up a temporary shortfall, such as when there is no wind blowing in any part of the UK, from Dogger to Western Isles to Solent to Irish sea to Cornwall to Norfolk to Yorkshire, and where it is also not blowing in the European countries where we have interconnects.

 

[Lower]

There are other bays and barrages where water can be stored until required to make up a temporary shortfall, such as when there is no wind blowing in any part of the UK, from Dogger to Western Isles to Solent to Irish sea to Cornwall to Norfolk to Yorkshire, and where it is also not blowing in the European countries where we have interconnects.

Surely the whole point of this discussion is that we've realised that we need energy independence from other countries to avoid their energy policies directly affecting us. ie Germany's dependence on Russian gas or France threatening to cut of their interconnect because they're not happy with our fisheries policy.

So interconnects to other countries aren't part of the solution, and assuming we can just move energy around based on where the wind happens to be blowing that day isn't a practical solution. What happens when there isn't enough wind across the country to power all our kettles or charge our cars?

That's why we need an energy generation method that we can turn on and off at will. I agree that tidal would be a viable solution because the tides vary around the country and the tides don't just stop flowing. But i have no idea what the financial investment compared to nuclear would be to build enough tidal generation to generate all our electricity when the wind doesn't blow, or the environmental impact compared to nuclear considering that tidal would have a significant impact on the habitats in the tidal barrage areas.

 

[jeds]

Wind and tidal flow will play a big part in future energy. Nobody will have a gas boiler in 20 years time but all houses will be fitted with battery storage - or possibly community battery storage - which will balance out variability of generation and supply.

 

[jeds]

I was a supporter of the Severn barrage a few years back but I did think it was dead in the water after the last round - environmental and economical issues etc. But I read in local press the other day (I am local to the proposed location) that the Ukraine/energy crisis might put it back on the table. As most will know, the second highest tide in the World. From memory it could do 10% of UK energy on its own.

 

[ajohn]

Figure I have heard for a barrage are 5 to 7% of a demand which if other factors are considered will increase. The Severn is thought to be the only one worth doing. Currently given all of the studies if it happens now it would be a knee jerk. Something politicians are often keen ion and it takes a long time to find out it was the wrong thing to do.

Nuke appears to be EDF, read France. Toshiba, read Japan dropped out some time ago. China who would probably do it one time and budget even if they lost on it - I suspect like 5G it wont happen. HS2 would have been a good thing to try them out on.

Sea fish breeding by the way. I think I saw salmon mentioned.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Is it feasible to have more hydroelectric power stations such as Scotland's Cruachan? There is no shortage of water and mountains in Scotland.