Which Impact Driver?

[Deleted member 174758]

That is an impact wrench, not an impact driver Mr Nut Job.Try using that on a wood screw and you'd find it too heavy by far, and also it would snap 6mm screws like carrots. Typical schoolboy error to confuse the two

In any case this (at 1898Nm) is an impact wrench. Or how about 2700Nm for supertanker screws? Your example is a mere toy. Either way, not quite what the OP is looking for

 

[DiyNutJob]

That is an impact wrench, not an impact driver Mr Nut Job.Try using that on a wood screw and you'd find it too heavy by far, and also it would snap 6mm screws like carrots. Typical schoolboy error to confuse the two

In any case this (at 1898Nm) is an impact wrench. Or how about 2700Nm for supertanker screws? Your example is a mere toy. Either way, not quite what the OP is looking for

It's a 1/2" drive. If you get a cheap china adaptor, you can drive it all day long.

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[Exedon]

its worth pointing out the 787 in the deal although it looks the same as the 3 speed electronic 887 yes its powerful and 100% up to diy the 887 is slightly greater nm[207]is about 50% more versitile in use so more care needed

I've actually got both have found 787 when used for drilling joists (with dewalt extreme tri flute bits) gets no where near as hot as the 887.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I went for the Eeinhell.

 

[opps]

It's a 1/2" drive. If you get a cheap china adaptor, you can drive it all day long.

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I am fitting doors for a mate that is a mechanic that repairs lorries. We were talking about tools. He mentioned that he once purchased a Clarke impact wrench (his Snap-on one had been stolen a couple of days before). I don't know if it was the same Clarke model. It was 18v, and he said that it was utter carp. He said that he ended up throwing it in to the bin.

I have never purchased a Clarke- I see their products in the Machine Mart catalogue and work on the assumption that they are of similar quality to Silverline- ie, cheap Chinese rubbish.

It may well not be the impact wrench that you linked to but he said that after buying it it purchased a decent one, (from memory a Milwaukee) which he still uses).

I am fortunate enough that I can offset tools against tax. I completely understand why DIYers purchase cheap tools, but if those tools are not fit for purchase, the tool becomes landfill.

I was taught the maxim of buy the best tool that you can afford to buy. When I pay £600 for a sander, I expect it to work 20 hours a week for 3-5 years before I need to repair/maintain it.

 

[opps]

It's a 1/2" drive. If you get a cheap china adaptor, you can drive it all day long.

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@JobAndKnock tried explaining the difference between an impact drill and an impact wrench.

Why are you unable to accept that you made an error?

I am grateful to people, more knowledgeable me, that have corrected me over the years. I am happy to bow to their superior knowledge. If I am wrong, as a tradesman, I actually want to be corrected, I like my customers, I never want to knowingly charge them for a job that will fail.

You seem to believe that any trades person offering advice on this site is part of a cabal that rips DIYers off.

I have no idea why you assume that, but I am increasing reaching the stage where I see you as being a malignant member, one who may offer reasonable advice, from time to time, but who introduces unacceptable levels of "noise". This site doesn't exist because of either you or me (exclusively).

I first visited this site to gain advice about my combi boiler (advice that enabled me to fix it). I was honour bound to reciprocate my, pretty extensive decorating knowledge. Quid pro quo. Why are you here? Other than your opinion, what do you add that improves the site?

Yeah, it is a rhetorical question-although you will, please don't bother answering, I am, naively, hoping that you may take note of my post. That said, given that I am criticising you- yeah, it make sense for you to defend yourself

Statistically, most people "googling" an answer, will not click past the first page, your post may be one of the first ones they see. They won't click through to the posts where an expert disagrees with you.

For what it is worth, I am not particularly confrontational. (ordinarily). I do however hope that, at some point, you accept that there are people (professionals) on this site that are happy to contribute to the site. Our/their advice makes this site viable as a business. An echo chamber of DIYers will not attract the eyes to pay for the servers, or the backend staff.

Regards opps

 

[DiyNutJob]

It may well not be the impact wrench that you linked to but he said that after buying it it purchased a decent one, (from memory a Milwaukee) which he still uses).

It isn't. I linked a corded one. It's much more useful than the battery carp that pro decorators use. I wouldn't normally recommend things that I don't use. The unit is a bit large and heavy. Since the OP didn't indicate what he would use the driver for, it's as good a driver as any for multiple purpose use, including dealing with most of the bolts on the car. It's less useful purely for driving wood screws. For wood, a 40Nm screwdriver is plenty. A 40Nm screwdriver would win an arm wrestle match against me after 10 screws. I rather not use impact as it may result in damage to screw or wood.

For light duty DIY use, I find clarke to be OK. I used their 1.25t racing jack for a 2t car. The hydraulic rubber seals were deliberately missing to reduce life. But, the design was OK. Restoring the missing bits made it fine. I bought some silverline stuff. No real complaints.

For what it is worth, I am not particularly confrontational. (ordinarily). I do however hope that, at some point, you accept that there are people (professionals) on this site that are happy to contribute to the site. Our/their advice makes this site viable as a business. An echo chamber of DIYers will not attract the eyes to pay for the servers, or the backend staff.

I have never stopped anyone contributing. But you seem to want to stop mine by keep asking why I am here on this site. I am here because I am, it's that simple. I usually have a giggle on things that are obviously wrong, such as caulk that doesn't crack.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

It's much more useful than the battery carp that pro decorators use.

Now you are just being petty and insulting for the sake of it

Since the OP didn't indicate what he would use the driver for, it's as good a driver as any for multiple purpose use, including dealing with most of the bolts on the car. It's less useful purely for driving wood screws

The OP specifically requested information about impact drivers. I think I've read enough of the OPs posts over the years to be able to say that he does seem to understand what he is asking for and so presumably knows the difference between an impact wrench and an impact driver. You, on the other hand, seem not to know. For the record wrenches are for driving nuts, bolts and heavy fixings - they range from about 250Nm up to over 2500Nm (and possibly over) "nut breaking" power in 18 volt cordless these days. Impact drivets are specifically designed to drive screws, up to about 200Nm on the layest models

You talk about not normally recommending tools you have no experience of - then make a ridiculous suggestion such as that wrench. Well, I've actually had a Makita DTW281 1/2in square drive 280Nm brushless 18 volt impact wrench since 2016 for tightening bolts and nuts in structural timberwork, and for lightweight steel fixing (e.g. bolting cycle racks into concrete, fixing stiffening posts inside pygymy walls, etc) - so alongside an impact driver for 7 years. It is a similar size and weight to my DHP481combi drill but much larger than the Makita DTD171 "daily driver" impact driver I now have. That is the first key difference - an impact driver is far smaller and lighter than an impact wrench, making it more suitable for driving screws, even down to the tiny screws used to fix kick plates onto doors, providing you have a multi speed model with soft medium and hard settings.

The second key difference is the torque - impact wrenches are designed to undo and tighten nuts which may require an extremely high initial or final tightening torque. Try feeding 280Nm of torque into all but the largest wood screws (i.e. over 6mm diameter) and the screw will possibly just shear off (due to the torque bei g too high). On the other hand an impact driver really isn't up to driving steel nuts and bolts on a car wheel because they don't generate sufficiently high torque (and using those 1/4in hex to square socket drive converters in an impact driver risks having the adaptor shear off in the chuck - I learned that the hard way)

For wood, a 40Nm screwdriver is plenty. A 40Nm screwdriver would win an arm wrestle match against me after 10 screws.

I think you are missing the point - impact drivers are designed to be small and light whilst allowing the user to drive high volumes of screws quickly. Much more quickly that a drill can. They are what you need if you are screwing down sub flooring on 150mm centres (163 fastenings per sheet) or worse still 100mm centres (325 fastenings per sheet), building timber studwork in volume and other such high volume tasks for which a combi drill would be to big, bulky, heavy and slow. They have their uses, but you wouldn't drill madonry with one ot drive auger bits (or at least I wouldn't)

I rather not use impact as it may result in damage to screw or wood.

Fine. That's your choice. But why then make a suggestion of a tool which will do that, in spades? Over the last 12 years I have used multi speed impact drivers which have 3 or 4 speeds as well as having settings for roofing bolts and the like. The controllability of these more modern nmulti-speed designs over the more common single speed models, which is presumably the type of impact driver you have tried, is what makes my impact driver a far more useful tool than a combi drill. But that's me, personally, talking about the type of work I do - and I rarely round out a screw head or damage timber

As to your "having a giggle", well that's your opinion, but to many people what comes across is just plain rudeness, such as your opening, dismissive comments about trade decorators

 

[DiyNutJob]

As to your "having a giggle", well that's your opinion, but to many people what comes across is just plain rudeness, such as your opening, dismissive comments about trade decorators

Not just decorators. Batteries are carp. The OP was showing concern about the battery. He knows as well as I do they are carp. He's a DIYer doing 20 screws. I don't imagine he needs that much speed as to risk damage. Trade can do that since any breakage won't be discovered until they are gone with the money. This is not saying every screw will break, just heightened probability.

 

[big-all]

Not just decorators. Batteries are carp. The OP was showing concern about the battery. He knows as well as I do they are carp. He's a DIYer doing 20 screws. I don't imagine he needs that much speed as to risk damage. Trade can do that since any breakage won't be discovered until they are gone with the money. This is not saying every screw will break, just heightened probability.

can you please explain what you mean by "batteries are carp" i am sure i must be missing a large part off a long conversation as these words on there own make little sense

 

[DiyNutJob]

can you please explain what you mean by "batteries are carp" i am sure i must be missing a large part off a long conversation as these words on there own make little sense

Heavy, unusable when needed, needs constant charging, stops in the middle of something, might start a fire while you sleep, lithium fires can't be put out.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Batteries are batteries. They have a given life, which for decent brand power tools, since Li-Ions came in, seems to be 5 to 7 years in trade use (I date my batteries so I have a good idea how long they last). Yes, there are exceptions (I have a 25 year old Elu cordless set where one of the original NiCd batteries is still good), but doing a straw poll recently around colleagues seems to indicate a similar life span regardless of make (Bosch blue, deWalt, Festool, Hikoki, Makita and Milwaukee) with those doing heavier work, such as grinding or breaking saying they got more like 3 to 5 years out of their batteries, presumably due to constant heavy current draw and excessive vibration

He's a DIYer doing 20 screws. I don't imagine he needs that much speed as to risk damage. Trade can do that since any breakage won't be discovered until they are gone with the money. This is not saying every screw will break, just heightened probability.

And there you go again being rude about tradesmen. Do you deliberately pick out the cheapest trades you can find? Or do you just stand behind people teliing them how to do their job (whilst not having a clue yourself)? I wonder how many people have told yo to do one over the years before they have walked off on you. Or do you just exaggerate for effect? One does wonder.

As it happens speed doesn't necessarilly increase risk (see what I wrote earlier about multi speed impact drivers). For example this week I installed a very large glazed head solid oak double door frame, about 11 feet high x 7 feet wide. To give you some idea, the main frame jambs are 4 x 4in (100mm square), and there is a secondary oak frame which goes inside the main frame for good measure. The weight and size of it meant that the main part of the frame required no less than 36 no 6 x 150mm screws driven into a mixture of hard engineer's brick and millstone grit. The counterbored holes were drilled with a combi drill and pilot drill set (6mm pilot with a TCT counterbore) BUT every screw was driven home with an impact driver. Oak is a hard timber liable to give you a hard stop, just the sort of thing which will snap a screw or mash a screw head insert if you don't take appeopriate care. NOT ONE SCREW WAS BROKEN, OR ONE SCREW HEAD MASHED. The inner frame (28 no screws, a mixture of 5 x 80/5 x 90 mm lengths) also went in without any incident. Just because you dislike impact drivers or have been incapable of learning how to use one properly please don't assume that everyone else is the same

 

[big-all]

Heavy, unusable when needed,needs constant charging, stops in the middle of something, might start a fire while you sleep, lithium fires can't be put out.

ok thanks for your explanation
some comments make sense some not so sure
1 ---heavy ---nowadays there is little in it in the middle ground between battery and mains indeed you can have better matched tools to job in battery weight and power wise compared to mains
2---unsutable ---again "indeed you can have better matched tools to job in battery weight and power wise compared to mains"
3---,needs constant charging, stops in the middle of something -----modern brushless are quite amazing if you are diy with a little planning you wont run out off power very often
4---might start a fire while you sleep, lithium fires can't be put out---a very valid point thermal runaway with lithium can be a problem but dismissing something completely because off one concern is at best lazy at worst depriving yourself and others from fantastic help and an easier life because off a near 100% adversity to danger that whilst genuine will cause far far less disruption to day to day activities than just about everything else you use if taken in proportion

 

[DiyNutJob]

if you are diy with a little planning you wont run out off power very often

Easier to DIY without planning. This is how life is, and you can never tell when DIY is needed. For DIY, power is usually available. Using battery in this setting is not too useful given their disadvantages. But people are free to buy batteries if they want. I don't prefer them and so I suggest corded. As expressed in the OP, there were concerns about battery life. The OP is not unaware of the problem.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Heavy, unusable when needed, needs constant charging, stops in the middle of something, might start a fire while you sleep, lithium fires can't be put out.

Heavy? An impact driver with a slimline battery is pretty light. The modern 18 volt Li-Ion tools we use are far lighter than the previous generation of 18 voltt NiCd tools. You must never have drilled holes with any of the old cast aluminium B&D drills DIYers had in the 1960s

Unusable when needed? TBH any cordless kit needs 2 batteries to ensure you have enough battery power available. Get into the habit of putting a drained battery on charge when you have drained it, not when you need it (Note: this applies to Li-Ions). As it happens EVs require the same discipline

Stops in the middle of something? See comment about 2 batteries above

Might start a fire? Really? Buy a respected brand rather than a cheap unknown piece of Chinese tat (regardless of whether or not you import direct from China, the "China Export" mark is not a guarantee of safety testing, unlike an EU CE mark). AFAIK all the battery charger fires reported to date have involved cheap Chinese no name tat. In any case, if you charge whilst you work...

And lithium fires CAN be extinguished. Google "Lith -Ex" and you will find extinguishers with a bright green label designed for just such a task. Some BCF (dry powder) extinguishers are also rated for the task. If you ever did a Fire Marshall ticket, I'd suggest that it's out of date because Lith-Ex extinguishers have been with us 3 to 4 years at least.

Most of your complaints are really non-complaints and have been answered long ago