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Which one? - Sentinel Deposit Remover, Sentinel X400, Fernox F5, Everbuild P11

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by Beeb2501, 27 Aug 2017.

  1. Beeb2501

    Beeb2501

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    I've got a 10-radiator open-vented system.

    I've drained it down and some of the water (15% perhaps) contained black sludge.

    I have taken one of the radiators off and flushed it through outdoors with mains pressure water. I'm happy that this rad is now clear but the other 9 probably aren't, so i want to flush the whole system with a cleanser.

    The question is, which one to use?
    • Fernox F5
    • Sentinel X400
    • Everbuild P11 System Cleanser
    • Sentinel Deposit Remover
    Once the cleanser is in the system, I was planning to run the boiler at full wellie for an hour or so a day for 6 days. Then, drain down again, refill and run clear water through just to flush the cleanser out. After that I'll refill and put some Fernox or Sentinel inhibitor in.

    Btw, I've also put a brand new F&E tank in the loft - so that's one part of the system that doesn't need anything doing to it

    Thanks in advance folks.
     
    Last edited: 27 Aug 2017
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  3. JohnD

    JohnD

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    As a DIYer and householder, I've tried a few, and am very happy with X400.

    It is non-aggressive and not acidic like some of the faster cleansers. If you forget to drain it out, it doesn't do any harm (but it will lose its power and the dirt will re-settle after about 4 weeks).

    At this time of year you won't want heat all day but you can leave the pump running with the boiler stat turned to 0 for several weeks. It is useful to turn off all the radiators but one, in turn, to maximise cleansing flow. Do that on your first day when you are full of enthusiasm. You can turn up your pump speed as long as you don't get pumping-over into your F&E tank.

    If you can do DIY plumbing, consider adding a system filter at about £100 to trap residual circulating particles (you can never get it all out). The Magnaclean is spectacularly fast at trapping black sludge. The earlier models were prone to leak but I hear the current ones are improved.

    After draining and rinsing use X100 on final fill. Sometimes you can buy the two together at a slight reduction. Usually about £15 each.
     
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  4. Beeb2501

    Beeb2501

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    Thanks for your info John.

    I've only got a few days to run the system with cleanser in (X400 or whichever) because I'm having a new boiler fitted on 4th September. The X400 (or whichever) won't arrive til Tuesday 29th, hence the plan to run the old boiler for 6 one-hour bursts.

    The new boiler will be an Ideal Logic Heat 15. I did think of a filter and Ideal recommend this one - https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/ideal-22mm-system-filter/

    I wonder how it stacks up against your Magnaclean?

    (Btw, which Magnaclean have you got? There seem to be several.)
     
    Last edited: 27 Aug 2017
  5. JohnD

    JohnD

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    that's a copy, or a rebrand, of a Spirotech. I now have an original. Good at catching the non-magnetic particles, but not so spectacularly fast with black sludge. Mine is very substantial, in solid brass, and I expect it to last better than the plastic Magnaclean.

    Perhaps you could drive to your local screwfix or DIY shed today for X400?
     
  6. Beeb2501

    Beeb2501

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    Can't drive anywhere at the moment - car is off the road :(

    I'm confused re the filter - have you got a link to yours?
     
  7. JohnD

    JohnD

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    mine is an obsolete model.

    Also known as Spirovent, I think

    they were on the industrial and commercial market long before the trend for domestic ones rocketed in popularity. Hence why mine is so solid and heavy.

    http://www.spirotherm.com/products/dirt-separation

     
  8. Beeb2501

    Beeb2501

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    Blimey, that yellow one looks like it came off a battleship.

    I don't have much room to fit it in near the boiler - presumably it could go on one of the 22mm pipes in the airing cupboard instead?

    I think maybe I'll stick with the Ideal one - it looks fairly compact. https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/ideal-22mm-system-filter/
     
  9. JohnD

    JohnD

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    it can go on the return pipe, to the boiler, so it has the chance to catch detritus before it enters the boiler, with no other components (radiators or cylinder) between the filter and the boiler. That's why it shouldn't go on the flow pipe.

    You might have room near your 3-port valve and pump (if separate from the boiler they are sometimes near the cylinder).
     
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  11. dilalio

    dilalio

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    Get yourself a TF1 Omega filter and it 'should' go on the boiler return... as close as poss to it.

    There are cleaner/inhibitor products available that can do both and be left in.

    You may need several treatments and, even then, it could end up requiring a powerflush.
     
  12. Beeb2501

    Beeb2501

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    Thanks to both.

    I think it'll have to go near the pump - there's definitely not enough room for it on the return pipe at the boiler (not with easy access anyway).

    That TF1 Omega looks pretty good, cheaper than the Ideal one as well.

    I've had 4 more rads off since my last post - they've been flushed through properly and are now ready to go back on. Only one more downstairs rad to go. The upstairs ones probably aren't as sludgy (I'll have a look anyway).
     
  13. Madrab

    Madrab

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    Spirotech MB3 - Ma Favoorit - Can be fitted vertically, close up under the boiler, as the magnet doesn't need to be pulled up out of the top.

    If you have a pacemaker, don't go near them.
     
  14. DaveHerns

    DaveHerns

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    Does that imply it can go anywhere on the basis that anything is better than nothing? I need a filter but have nowhere easy to fit it.
     
  15. JohnD

    JohnD

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    I'd agree that "anything is better than nothing" and an old open-vented system may contain a shocking amount of sludge.

    the best position is certainly on the return pipe just before the boiler, what you are aiming for is that all the water has to pass through the filter before it can go into the boiler, to minimise the chance of particles going in there and getting lodged. However no filter collects 100% at first pass. It may be that a professional plumber, with more practice and better able to change the pipe layout, may be willing to spend the time making a better route.

    I have however used a Magnaclean, during and after X400, where it only collected the return from the downstairs rads. Over time, of course, the water mixes and flows round the upstairs, downstairs and cylinder circuit. And it is very much better than the previous arrangement of no filter at all. DIY cleans may not solve all your problems, but they are unlikely to do anything other than good, and are very cheap and simple.

    The amount of sediment collected declines over time. You'll find that at first there is a significant amount to empty out after a week; then a month; and eventually no more than a smear after a year.
     
  16. dilalio

    dilalio

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    I'd always repipe to put it on the boiler return... BG seem to love putting them on the flow right by the boiler (lazy basturds) :rolleyes:
     
  17. shambolic

    shambolic

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    Remember the extra warranty from ideal on their plus versions if you use their filter
     
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