Why are ring finals split up/down not side/side?

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Yes, any form of ventilation "wastes" heat - but dealing with moisture at source is the least wasteful option. It soes seem strange that they insist on buildings being airtight, and then insist on adding ventilation because being airtight causes many problems o_O
 
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If the door on the shower cubical fits well at the bottom, very little water vapour escapes into the room, if you cook with an induction hob then the fuel is not adding to moisture in the room, and the automated boil and simmer reduces moisture into room from food being cooked, and if you use hot air central heating you will need to actually add water as the house becomes super dry and one is forever getting static discharges.

We can also use heat recovery units, again giving ventilation without cooling house.

However the problem is not loss of heat, but negative air pressure, one can't ensure all fans are off before any open flue fire is used, where there are no open flue fires in the building no problem, but where there are it is so easy to suck in fumes, even without any fans there are dangers, I remember returning my friend home and him having to open windows and doors in the winter to let the cold air out before lighting a fire, until that was done one could not get any draft on the flue.

Fans to remove water vapour are not required in many houses, only when poorly fitting doors or curtains are used on the shower cubical causing a chimney effect will the room fill with water vapour, with no shower curtain or door there is no problem as with mothers old wet room, and with doors that fit well at the bottom there is no problem as with my house. There may be the odd time I want to boil some thing for an extended time, but rarely do we have a problem in an electric powered kitchen.

Now to fit fans to remove odour is another matter, yes can see point in that, but water vapour no.
 
In my opinion, a well position extract system is a much better option than opening windows during the normal course of life, and will waste much less heat than an open window.
I agree with you in concept, up to a point, but primarily because of ...
My bathroom fan runs on PIR and or humidity, so it runs whilst ever my bathroom has a surplus of moisture. It only runs when necessary, unlike a window which is easily forgotten about an left open, with a variable amount of ventilation which is entirely dependent on the strength of the wind. .... The main thing is the suck moist air out, as close as possible to the source of the moisture - open windows don't really do that.
IF one only opens the window for 'as long as is necessary' (taking into account prevailing weather conditions etc.), then one can't have it both ways - the first air to leave the bathroom through the window (if any!) will be the moist air from the bathroom (replaced by warm, dryer, air from the rest of the house), so if there is an 'unnecessary wastage of heat' (there obviously has to be some loss of heat, since warmed air is leaving the house and being replaced by {usually colder} air from outside), then this would presumably mean that the window had been left open 'for longer than necessary'.

However, this doesn't alter the point I made, and to which you are responding ... IF there is adequate ventilation between bathroom and rest of house and between the house and the outside world for the extractor fan to do what it says on the tin (in terms of airflow) (and if the fan is installed appropriately) then the 'usual' periods of extractor running would result in a substantial removal of heated air from the house ...

... in terms of extremely rough calculations, I understand that an average UK house has a volume of around 200 m³ and the recommended extraction rate for a bathroom appears to be at least 50 m³ /hour. Unlike you, most people have extractors run from lighting with a run-on timer, and I imagine that their extractor will probably run for at least half an hour (probably an hour in the case if my daughters!) when people have a bath or shower. That seems to suggest that each such 'run' of the extractor would probably remove something between quarter and half of the heated air in the house.

Kind Regards, John
 
I must agree with John, in the main a bathroom extractor runs far longer than required, once a day going to toilet it may need a fan due to smell, but I likely go to toilet 5 or more times a day when fan is not required, and if no or little smell I would not use fan, or open window, in the main I want a shower in the warmth, so the fan or window would be used when finished, not when having the shower. I see how a fan with a pneumatic push button timer auto switches off, so is maybe a better option to opening a window, however only if the shutters on the fan actually stop any air flow once the fan switches off, and often those shutters don't stop air flow so one has more of an uncontrolled air change with a fan than with a simple opening window.

As to for what percentage of the year having a window open matters I don't know. Also how well window open functions work with the TRV heads? I now do have heads with a window open function, but not done a winter with them so no idea how well they work. Standard factory set window open function time is 15 minutes, there are also sensors one can fit to window to physically switch off the heating as soon as window is opened, so with a window open the air in and air out is between a single room and outside, it does not cool down rest of house, but with a fan it is dragging warm air from rest of house so window open function on TRV head will not work, and it is cooling whole house not just the bathroom.
 
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... in terms of extremely rough calculations, I understand that an average UK house has a volume of around 200 m³ and the recommended extraction rate for a bathroom appears to be at least 50 m³ /hour. Unlike you, most people have extractors run from lighting with a run-on timer, and I imagine that their extractor will probably run for at least half an hour (probably an hour in the case if my daughters!) when people have a bath or shower. That seems to suggest that each such 'run' of the extractor would probably remove something between quarter and half of the heated air in the house.

I normally have the trickle vent open in the bathroom, so much of the extracted air will be the same air extracted, as comes in via the window. I have certainly not logged any extra boiler activity when the bathroom has been used.
 
I normally have the trickle vent open in the bathroom, so much of the extracted air will be the same air extracted, as comes in via the window. I have certainly not logged any extra boiler activity when the bathroom has been used.
Fair enough, provided that the 'trickle vent' is effectively much larger than the gaps under the door etc, and also large enough to allow the extractor to shift air at an adequate rate.

Kind Regards, John
 

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