?? why?

[JohnW2]

Re codeine addiction - I've never had a need for long-term pain relief, but the closest I came was about a week of a root canal infection while we waited for the antibiotic course to run before my dentist got to work, and I self-medicated with co-codamol.

That's not really very long-term, and would not result in any significant degree of addiction in most people (but see below)

I was taking about 50% of the maximum recommended, for about a week, and whilst I didn't get addicted, it was sobering that when I stopped taking it I got withdrawal symptoms.

If you got withdrawal symptoms then, technically speaking, you were 'addicted' but presumably not to an extent which was an appreciable problem.

Having said the above, it's far from unknown for people who receive a small handful of doses of morphine (or similar) as post-op analgesia in the first 24-48 hours after surgery to develop quite severe withdrawal symptoms when it is stopped.

 

[morqthana]

That's not really very long-term, and would not result in any significant degree of addiction in most people (but see below)

Indeed not - that was my point. Even after only a short period of light use my body reacted to having it shut off. Fortunately my mind did not react by deciding to take some more.

If you got withdrawal symptoms then, technically speaking, you were 'addicted'

Doesn't there have to be a psychological component for "addiction"?

but presumably not to an extent which was an appreciable problem.

No - I had 12-ish hours, maybe a waking day, of minor whole-body pain/discomfort. I knew why, and let it run its course. Next day I was fine.

Looking back I think the biggest issue was that I probably should not have been driving that week....

Having said the above, it's far from unknown for people who receive a small handful of doses of morphine (or similar) as post-op analgesia in the first 24-48 hours after surgery to develop quite severe withdrawal symptoms when it is stopped.

I had surgery once and was hooked up to one of those self-administered morphine delivery systems. I didn't need it, so didn't administer any.

Afterwards I thought "should have given it a try to see what it was like"

Anyway - as far as the body is concerned, codeine is morphine, no?

 

[SUNRAY]

Anyway - as far as the body is concerned, codeine is morphine, no?

As I understand it and I must stress I have no medical background, the codeine is converted to morphine in the body, I believe the word metabolism comes into it. But as I said: I'm not medically trained.

 

[morqthana]

As I understand it .. codeine is converted to morphine in the body,

That's what I meant by "as far as the body is concerned, codeine is morphine"

 

[SUNRAY]

Just to add to that one.
Someone in my circle has been given some additional medication by a GP.
One of a group practice so not quite their usual GP as such.
They read the leaflets and amongst the many warnings they list a few items that might affect the patient according to what is on the leaflets.
The patient mentioned this to the pharmacy just as a "quick overcheck" and left the matter with the pharmacy and agreed to ring back in a few hours time.
Ringing back was advised to check with the GP (the pharmacy passed the buck!).
From my own personal experience and of many in my circle a GP appointment within three weeks is impossible so the patient has decided to go ahead and take the additional medication under the presumption that the GP issuing the prescription has applied due diligence prior to prescribing.
The patients existing "Ailments" are
Atrial Fibrillation.
"Probable Asthma/COPD"
Type 2 Diabetes.
Cellulitis of leg.
Essential Hypertension.
Obstructive Sleep Apnoea. (CPAP machine used every night).
Osteopenia.
Hip Osteoarthritis.
Venous Ulcer of leg.
Osteoarthritis. (both shoulders and both knees) .

Medication
Ramipril.
Metformin.
Omeprazole.
Adizem SR.
Warfarin.
Atorvastatin.
CoCodomol.
Epimax Excetra Cream.
Fostair Nexthaler .
Salamol Inhaler.
Bendroflumeethiazide.
Patient is 70 years old and overweight.
These are repeat medications.

The additional medication that is of concern when reading the leaflets are:-
Prednisolone 5mg 6 capsules once daily for 7 days.
Doxycycline 100mg caps 6 capsules total 2 on the 1st day and 1 on the remaining 4 days.
The patient has taken this once before in 2024 and a further dose the month before of 2 capsules for 7 days.

(I have highlighted in bold what the patient thinks according to the contras listed on the leaflet.)

Some of you will know doubt know yourself or because of having people in your own circle having some of those conditions and knowing some of the contras.
Some of you might even have had some medical training and/or qualifications.

No doubt some "could be serious" but most probably not and hopefully the GP has taken all of this into account.

Every operation (procedure I think they calls them these days) and every medication (simple or not) can have serious repercussions in some unlucky persons in some circumstances.

I myself was given the choice by a surgeon of having a joint operation and after listing all of the possible outcomes and the percentages I started thinking do I risk it for the possible reward or do I play "safe" and let nature take its course (let it worsen) or do I go thru it all and there is none or little improvement, He gave me 12 months to decide then he would discharge me.
Within a week of that meeting Boris put us into the first lockdown, so my niggling doubts seemed to take a back seat to what was happening to the world so I left it in abeyance.

My comment deleted as I'm not medically trained and should not be making comments about medicinal compatibilities.

 

[SUNRAY]

That's what I meant by "as far as the body is concerned, codeine is morphine"

That was my answer to your question.

 

[JohnW2]

As I understand it and I must stress I have no medical background, the codeine is converted to morphine in the body, I believe the word metabolism comes into it. But as I said: I'm not medically trained.

Indeed, as I've said a number of times, codeine (and dihydrocodeine) is converted to morphine in the liver - so, yes, as I've also said, as far as the body is concerned, giving a ('normal') does of codeine is the same as giving a small dose of morphine.

 

[SUNRAY]

That's not really very long-term, and would not result in any significant degree of addiction in most people (but see below)

If you got withdrawal symptoms then, technically speaking, you were 'addicted' but presumably not to an extent which was an appreciable problem.

I wouldn't have thought that was describing addiction and equally my own recent experience feels like far from addiction, the migraines and 'bunging up' I accept as side effect/withdrawal symptoms and only return to the drugs when the pain in the neck becomes too much again.

Having said the above, it's far from unknown for people who receive a small handful of doses of morphine (or similar) as post-op analgesia in the first 24-48 hours after surgery to develop quite severe withdrawal symptoms when it is stopped.

 

[ebee]

I once had a terrific pain from an injury, so intense and debilitating that I could sympathise with some people who decide to end it all if there is no chance of improvement. It was that bad.
At its worst was about a week at max and nearly that bad for a few weeks too.
I was already on some medication and there was a restriction on what type of alternatives I could take.
My GP prescribed Tramadol and it was a great improvement in comparison.
Initially I hesitated because I had witnessed someone suffering from side effects of theirs.
They took first dose, woke up in the morning after a decent nights sleep no problem.
Later too a second dose but a while later became "really ill", immediate GP appointment an was given the antidote "I felt like I was dying" they said.
So remembering this I was hesitant.
But I took it and some good relief and to my surprise I had no problems.
Still in much pain I asked for a repeat for relief, refused because of risk of addition, I really missed that relief but the GP had decided NO.
Shows how two apparently similar people can react differently to the same drug!
What can kill some people can "cure" another.
For a very long time I have adopted a policy of not taking anything unless I consider it to be absolutely necessary. I have known people who "take one aspirin each day just in case they get a cold". The mind boggles.
So far so good.

 

[morqthana]

She who scowls at me takes 75mg aspirin each day.

 

[ebee]

there could be a medical reason why a GP will advise/prescribe a small amount of aspirin each day but just a normal person deciding themselves they should take it for instance because they were bus conductors on those old busses with an open rear platform and therefore draughty and increase their chances of getting a cold is something else

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I have known people who "take one aspirin each day just in case they get a cold". The mind boggles.

Amongst my mix of prescribed daily meds, they list 1x 75mg aspirin per day.

 

[ebee]

Yes Harry if it is prescribed that is one thing, your GP etc should have considered all possible side effects and all benefits and selected the best outcome for you. But to self medicate without any more than just a gut feeling of your own and possibly influenced by other other people opinions whether valid or not is not a good way to start your own treatment without much regard. On balance I would hope the pros have a better understanding and a better regard for your health than just yourself and Fred from next door.
Fred from next door and you yourself might get things right occasionally and the medical profession might get things wrong now again, I know who I would tend to follow.
A few years back my Wife was in A & E in lots of pain and the medics were baffled they could not reduce the pain. On triage I made a suggestion to a nurse and later to a Dr or two, I could see they were disregarding what I said, eventually after about 5 doctors one remarked to me and said "I think you might have a point". That started the road to success . Torn muscles upon badly lifting a heavy load (the more recent of the two conditions) and gallstones which had started troubling her a few weeks beforehand (it took over 2 years to actually find the gallstones, they can be bilghters to find sometimes , several different consultants and tests at two separate health authority areas. But initially they were all treating it as one cause only and not considering my input, jus one eventually did perhaps hindered a bit by their "what the heck do you know?" attitude.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Fred from next door and you yourself might get things right occasionally and the medical profession might get things wrong now again, I know who I would tend to follow.

I was told by my GP, to just take 1x75mg per day. I insisted the aspirin be prescribed, so it appeared on my record. I hate taking meds, I refuse to take anything not prescribed.

 

[morqthana]

My wife's aspirin is prescribed.