Will builders and structural engineers just do plans?

[richard7761]

I put a project into one of those find a tradesman sites.

I don't know whether I have no reply because I put in a link to the project description, and no-one can work out to cut and paste the URL, or whether builders or structural engineers just are not interested in providing a service of drawing up plans only.

Not everybody can afford for a builder to do everything.

This is my project, which I keep banging on about in various posts:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richards_internet/HOMEANDGARDEN/loadbearingcornerpoint.html

I just want to know how much it would cost drawing up plans.

 

[onlyfitidealboilers]

Well if it's your project you sort it ?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Builders don't do drawings they build things, the clues in their name. Just employ an architectural technician, structural engineer or surveyor direct, pick a one man band, I doubt many will turn down a job even a small one. And why anyone messes around with one the tradesman sites is anybody's guess.

 

[richard7761]

The thing is, I think a builder can either simply build, or he can design and build. For many projects, you will need the builder to be able to come up with plans acceptable to building control.

So, some builders can do inspections, draw up plans.

If you want a simple inspection, I think many times it's cheaper to go to a qualified builder rather than someone holding themselves out as a structural engineer.

So, some builders should be open to simply providing plans. Unless builders think the public should not be asking them to provide only that service.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You Sir, are bonkers!

 

[richard7761]

You Sir, are bonkers!

Well, please explain. Explain what to expect from someone holding themselves out as Builder, a Structural Engineer a Bricklayer.

 

[TheVictorian]

As everyone else has said, you just need to get an engineer to do the calculations and the drawing.

I cannot see what the problem is here but can understand why no one has responded to your requests.

Find a local structural engineer and go and speak to him face to face.

 

[richard7761]

As everyone else has said, you just need to get an engineer to do the calculations and the drawing.

I cannot see what the problem is here but can understand why no one has responded to your requests.

Find a local structural engineer and go and speak to him face to face.

When I asked permission from the local Council over a project having to do with a load-bearing situation, seeing a Builder was required. It was a Builder that had to be approved. So, whatever I wanted to do, an approved Builder was required. I presumed that the Builder would have the skill to know what a safe build was. That might take drawing up some sort of design plan. I presumed determining a safe build was not something that a bricklayer was approved for, from the Councils point of view.

I had occation to have an inspection doing, I believe, I think, I received a quote from a Builder. Not someone holding themselves out as a Structural Engineer as such. Much cheaper quote from the Builder! That seems to be my experience.

 

[shagster]

I had occation to have an inspection doing, I believe, I think, I received a quote from a Builder. Not someone holding themselves out as a Structural Engineer as such. Much cheaper quote from the Builder! That seems to be my experience.

Knowing what I know, I would always get an SE in for any job costing over ~£3000. SEs can also do plans, but you can get someone else to do those if you want to keep the costs down, or perhaps do them yourself. The great thing about an SE is that he will come up with a spec, and you can screw the builder to the wall when he doesn't follow it. A builder will make up all sorts of tosh about why your job doesn't need restraining straps or whatever, but if it's there in black and white from the SE he's got to follow that. I actually had a job fail inspection and the builder refused to put it right saying the extra work wasn't necessary. What does that tell you?

I would only trust a builder to lay bricks in a straight line. Most of them do seem to be able to do that. If I had time to supervise I would just get a brickie. In my experience they know as much or more than whoever's supervising them (e.g. the guy taking all the dosh).

Sorry if I'm making you paranoid, but do not trust the council either. You will find they vary greatly in the competence of their BCOs (or should I say attention to detail). I was unfortunate to have gone through three BCOs in one job (due to staff changes at the council) and it was quite an eye opener.

EDIT: Sorry, only just now checked your drawings. I don't understand them. I suspect if the BCO looked at them he'd not understand them either, so he's just going to tell you to talk to someone who can be bothered to decipher them. This looks way too complicated for a builder.

S

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Blah blah blah

No, I've re-read all of your posts several times, they're still a load of incomprehensible rubbish!

 

[richard7761]

Blah blah blah

No, I've re-read all of your posts several times, they're still a load of incomprehensible rubbish!

That is because you don't have any imagination. You cannot perceive other people's situation, or viewpoint. You are coming across as a bigoted individual,. I think you are trolling. You are not making a serious attempt to understand, you are not preprepared to imagine that someone might have a point.

You don't explain anything, all you do is say I'm talking rubbish. There is nothing to you.

What you should be doing is recognising my experiences and then you can develop an understanding of why I say what I say.

This is perhaps what you could have perceived by what I've written:

When richard7761 had dealings with the council over a load-bearing wall, the council mentioned see a builder. Richard771 looked at structural engineers and builder's. Eventually, a builder came forward saying he could offer certification of the load-bearing state of the wall in question.

After that experience, richard7761 has come to wonder whether those holding themselves out as a builders are in a position to, and are willing to draw up plans for clients. The reasoning being if a builder can certify a structure, he can draw up plans.

Now, it should not be difficult for anyone applying their their brains and applying goodwill, to perceive the above.

Now, it could be that the builder I saw, was also a structural engineer. Well, if that was likely, why does not anyone point that out. Folks could say something like - builders in general don't do plans, except if they are qualified structural engineers - or whatever.

But, to post that I'm posting nonsense, just shows the shallowness of the poster saying that. There has been no effort at all to assist, to understand why richard7761 is posting what he is posting.

Why pull someone down, when it is not justified?

So, answer the question, will those holding themselves out as builders offer the service of drawing up plans?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

More nonsene. please stop trolling.

 

[peterperfection]

If you want peace of mind Richard-- just pay a structural Engineer to 'put his name' to the calcs.
Then get a builder to work to the drawings.

Look bud- the facts are- structural engs work to nominal sizes -- when in fact- any builder worth his salt-- knows that such a animal does not exist.

Yes- builders work on experience and common sense- and often in 80% of jobs- 'modify' the SE instructions.

However- most builders do not have the relevent insurance cover- to take away the role of a SE.

Simple thing like you propose (however igglypiggly it looks)-- would cost you next to nothing in SE fees.

Just pay the relevent person for the job- SIMPLES .

Just out of interest- what job do you do Richard ?.

 

[richard7761]

If you want peace of mind Richard-- just pay a structural Engineer to 'put his name' to the calcs.
Then get a builder to work to the drawings.

Look bud- the facts are- structural engs work to nominal sizes -- when in fact- any builder worth his salt-- knows that such a animal does not exist.

Yes- builders work on experience and common sense- and often in 80% of jobs- 'modify' the SE instructions.

However- most builders do not have the relevent insurance cover- to take away the role of a SE.

Simple thing like you propose (however igglypiggly it looks)-- would cost you next to nothing in SE fees.

Just pay the relevent person for the job- SIMPLES .

Just out of interest- what job do you do Richard ?.

Of course, I'm not trying to avoid paying whatever, or whoever it takes to provide plans that can satisfy building control.

I'm not tying to avoid paying the relevant person for the job.

All I've been asking is do builders provide a service of drawing up plans. My experience makes wonder that they might. But, the builder I've had contact with over certification as to the load-bearing status of a wall, might actually have some structural engineering qualifications unknown to me. And that is why he could provide certification.

Anyway, it appears that the answer to my enquiry, is that in general, a builder will not design a structure and provide the plans, in cases where building control needs to examine the work. Unless he who holds himself out as a builder, is in fact rather more than a builder, having structural engineering qualifications.

I think that is what folks would agree to.

 

[peterperfection]

If you want peace of mind Richard-- just pay a structural Engineer to 'put his name' to the calcs.
Then get a builder to work to the drawings.

Look bud- the facts are- structural engs work to nominal sizes -- when in fact- any builder worth his salt-- knows that such a animal does not exist.

Yes- builders work on experience and common sense- and often in 80% of jobs- 'modify' the SE instructions.

However- most builders do not have the relevent insurance cover- to take away the role of a SE.

Simple thing like you propose (however igglypiggly it looks)-- would cost you next to nothing in SE fees.

Just pay the relevent person for the job- SIMPLES .

Just out of interest- what job do you do Richard ?.

Of course, I'm not trying to avoid paying whatever, or whoever it takes to provide plans that can satisfy building control.

I'm not tying to avoid paying the relevant person for the job.

All I've been asking is do builders provide a service of drawing up plans. My experience makes wonder that they might. But, the builder I've had contact with over certification as to the load-bearing status of a wall, might actually have some structural engineering qualifications unknown to me. And that is why he could provide certification.

Anyway, it appears that the answer to my enquiry, is that in general, a builder will not design a structure and provide the plans, in cases where building control needs to examine the work. Unless he who holds himself out as a builder, is in fact rather more than a builder, having structural engineering qualifications.

I think that is what folks would agree to.

Yes-can see where you are coming from now.
I am a builder and I do plans- but only for PP.
Lots of SEs have worked for the council- and so- they know the ins and outs etc. I just leave it to them. Basically--I just pay them for their name on the bottom --it's safer for me that way.
Good luck.