Wiring into an external garage one meter from house?

Ok that sounds good. So if I were to run 2.5mm cable off a 30a CB in the CU, to a junction box (needs to be rated I presume?) to SWA cable outside and into the garage into a 13a FCU then onto a 5a Switched FCU for lighting?

Is there any advise on wiring into a CB in a new consumer unit?

Thanks all!
 
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Ok that sounds good. So if I were to run 2.5mm cable off a 30a CB in the CU, to a junction box (needs to be rated I presume?) to SWA cable outside and into the garage into a 13a FCU then onto a 5a Switched FCU for lighting?

Is there any advise on wiring into a CB in a new consumer unit?

Thanks all!

You can't run 2.5mm cable off a 30/32 A fuse/MCB, unless it's a spur - which means you'ld be restricted again.

If it's not a spur, but a new circuit from the board, then it's notifiable.

Do you see what you lot have caused?? :)
 
I know! I can't believe the question I asked has brought about such a lengthily debate - I did try to follow and learn as much as possible but eventually I began to get lost.

OK so I think I will stick to the originally stated plan of coming from an FCU into SWA rather than going straight from the CU.

So is the conclusion that this is not notifiable if its a new house but just spurring of ring main?
 
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You can't run 2.5mm cable off a 30/32 A fuse/MCB, unless it's a spur - which means you'ld be restricted again.
Unless you can show how the presence of other cables coming off the same MCB would affect it, I'm going to have to point out that of course you can run 2.5mm² cable from a 30/32A device as long as the overload protection downstream is adequate, i.e. the cable supplies one socket outlet or one FCU.
 
You can't run 2.5mm cable off a 30/32 A fuse/MCB, unless it's a spur - which means you'ld be restricted again.
Unless you can show how the presence of other cables coming off the same MCB would affect it, I'm going to have to point out that of course you can run 2.5mm² cable from a 30/32A device as long as the overload protection downstream is adequate, i.e. the cable supplies one socket outlet or one FCU.

No argument from me - I just didn't think that much detail was required......you've blown the OPs mind as it is. :)
 
So is the conclusion that this is not notifiable if its a new house but just spurring of ring main?
'New house' doesn't come into the equation. Extending, or spurring off, an existiing circuit is, in general, not notifiable. Adding a new circuit (e.g. from a new MCB in the CU) always is notifiable.

Kind Regards, John.
 
You can't run 2.5mm cable off a 30/32 A fuse/MCB, unless it's a spur - which means you'ld be restricted again.
Unless you can show how the presence of other cables coming off the same MCB would affect it, I'm going to have to point out that of course you can run 2.5mm² cable from a 30/32A device as long as the overload protection downstream is adequate, i.e. the cable supplies one socket outlet or one FCU.
True, but in that situation you'd gain nothing by having a 30A/32A protective device - you might as well have a 15A/16A/20A one - not much more useful than OP's plan for a 13A fused spur.

Kind Regards, John.
 
I know! I can't believe the question I asked has brought about such a lengthily debate - I did try to follow and learn as much as possible but eventually I began to get lost.
I'm not surprised. As far as your job is concerned, there was only one issue being hotly debated - namely whether your 1m or so of underground SWA made the work notifiable, and I think you probably saw that there is a strong argument that the words of the law do not say that it is notifiable.
OK so I think I will stick to the originally stated plan of coming from an FCU into SWA rather than going straight from the CU.
That's certainly the way to avoid the need to notify. Just one question ... in your initial post, you wrote (of the cable):
....going down the wall about 20" under one 2 by 2 slab into the garage.
I assume/hope that you meant down the wall, and then buried 20" below the 2x2 slab (rather than '20" down the wall' and then 'just under the slab')? I only ask becuase people have been known to think that plonking a paving slab straight onto a cable affords adequate protection!

Kind Regards, John.
 
<some stuff>
There are two very important principles to grasp.

1) We are discussing things ONLY in the context of Schedule 4.

2)
The cable can't be separated from the "work which consists of adding a socket," since it's a necessary part of that work.




Not disputed. I said as much above: It is "work which consists of adding a socket."
And that work is an atomic operation. Schedule 4 does not recognise anything in the work except adding a socket.

Therefore if the socket is not in a location which makes the adding of it notifiable, the "work which consists of adding a socket" is not notifiable.


I don't understand your bizarre interpretation that the cable somehow becomes part of the socket, and not just part of the overall job.
Why do you think it's bizarre?

After all,
The cable can't be separated from the "work which consists of adding a socket," since it's a necessary part of that work.

It's not that the cable becomes part of the socket, it's that adding it becomes part of the work which consists of adding the socket, and, as you said, it cannot be separated from it. So since Schedule 4 does not recognise anything with more granularity than adding the socket, Schedule 4 is only concerned with the notifiability of the socket.

If the cable can't be separated from the "work which consists of adding a socket" then neither can its notifiability.

If the socket is not in a location which makes the adding of it notifiable, the "work which consists of adding a socket" is not notifiable. Installing the box is not notifiable. Installing the cable clips is not notifiable. Installing the capping/trunking/conduit (if used) is not notifiable. Installing the cable is not notifiable.


The clauses in 2(a) & (b) apply to the "work" not just to the socket.
IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4 the only work recognised, the only work identified, the only work given existence, is the adding of the socket.

IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4 adding the socket is an atomic operation.

If the socket is not in a location which makes the adding of it notifiable, the "work which consists of adding a socket" is not notifiable.


Even if it involves "work in a special location," to use your kitchen example?
My example was that of adding a socket in a living room, not in a kitchen.

Adding a socket in a living room is not notifiable, therefore, since it cannot be separated from it, installing the cable which is a necessary part of it is likewise not notifiable.


So you don't think that removing a socket in a kitchen, feeding a new cable to it, connecting to the terminals and replacing the socket constitutes work in a kitchen?
IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4 , if the socket is not being installed in a kitchen then that work is not taking place within a kitchen. It can't be, because the cable can't be separated from the "work which consists of adding a socket," since it's a necessary part of that work.



And you've already agreed that to make any sense whatsoever, "work which consists of adding a socket" is implicitly including the cable and any other necessary items.
Absolutely.

And by exactly the same reasoning, for the determination of notifiability by Schedule 4, adding the cable and any other necessary items is implicitly included in the determination of the notifiability of the socket. Therefore if the socket is not in a location which makes the adding of it notifiable, the "work which consists of adding a socket" is not notifiable.


That doesn't mean that every item installed as part of the job is in the living room though.
IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4 it is. Schedule 4 does not recognise anything with more granularity than adding the socket.

IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4 if the socket is in the living room so is the cable.


Yes, to the work. And the clauses in 2(a) & (b) apply to the work, i.e. the entire job.
Absolutely.

To the entire job. Which has a single aspect of existence - the adding of the socket.

The job is atomic. Adding the cable can't be separated from the "work which consists of adding a socket.

Adding the socket is all that exists in Schedule 4, everything else is implied. So the notifiability of everything else is implied by the notifiability of the socket.


I don't think either your view of this situation or mine makes schedule 4 "work" as a whole.
Actually mine does.

It makes it work IN THE CONTEXT OF ITSELF.

I know you think I'm wrong, but try working Schedule 4 the way I suggest and you'll see that it does work.


I've said consistently that the cable is a necessary part of the work which consists of adding the socket. That doesn't make it an item which is indistinguishable from the socket itself.
IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4 it does.


Even if the cable actually starts in a kitchen and runs through a hallway and living room to reach the bedroom? And you say that the cable is therefore in the bedroom, simply because the socket it feeds is in the bedroom? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
It does not sound at all ridiculous to me IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4.

If it sounds ridiculous to you that's because you aren't looking at it IN THE CONTEXT OF SCHEDULE 4.

Schedule 4 does not have to bear any relationship to real life.

It does not have to bear any relationship to what those who wrote it thought they were writing, and since, as many people have observed, we cannot try to guess what they intended we can only work with what they wrote.

Schedule 4 is a machine which makes a determination of the notifiability of the work. If what it makes is not what the people who built it wanted it to make then that is 100% their fault, not ours. And until they build a different machine, something which they could have done on any of 10 occasions in the last 5 years but chose not to, they will have to put up with what it makes in its current form.

All we can do is to work it, and see what it makes. If we work it in way which breaks it, we are working it the wrong way. If we find a way to work it which does not break it then that must be the right way.
 
Holmslaw - you are wrong.

No I'm not.

Answer this very simple question, would you be happy for someone to walk round your house flicking lighted matches onto your furniture and furnishings? if you answer is no it proves I'm correct.

That is a stupid analogy. How is wiring an outlet with a load not possibly greater than 26A on a 2.5mm² with adequate short-circuit protection a fire risk ? (With all other install factors allowing, which would be the case with any circuit).
If you can provide an engineering explanation I'd be pleased to hear it or perhaps you'd like a job at the IET ?
 

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