Wiring remote switched sockets for Kitchen appliances

I think John once worked out that an extractor fan stalling could not cause enough overload to blow a 3A fuse.

I expect he we remind us. :)

I'll accept that. I've no idea what the stalled current in my plinth heater would be, hence my rather uncertain '... a chance...' wording. Likely a nil/negligible chance as you (or John) say. I'll not be testing it in that manner :).

Would you fit a 5A or 13A fuse? Probably not, but it doesn't matter, does it?
(y)
 
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I think John once worked out that an extractor fan stalling could not cause enough overload to blow a 3A fuse. I expect he we remind us. :)
You called? I didn't "work it out" - I conducted the experiment.

After jamming the fan, the internal thermal cutout in the fan operated before the 3A fuse blew, with the motor hardly warm. When, to emulate an extremely unlikleley scenario, I bypassed the 'failed' thermal cutout (simulating a cutout that had failed short-circuit), the motor died in a cloud of blue smoke before the 3A fuse blew.

This was clearly a case of an item with adequate internal protection - but not everything is guaranteed to be like that.

Kind Regards, John
 
I can understand your thinking in a way but when explaining regulations and electrical principles, it is not logical to do so at length and then say "but I would still do something else because I just feel better".
It's not just "to make me feel better". I present an argument for how it might conceivably one day 'do good', coupled with the fact that, as far as I am aware, there is no way that it could 'do harm'. The only arguments relate to the fact that the likelihood of it ever 'doing good' are extremely small.
Also, you frequently state quite correctly that fuses etc. do not limit the magnitude of a fault current but merely the duration so a few milliseconds, if any, are all that is involved.
Only for very high currents - when, as you say, any fuse would do.

15A would blow a 3A fuse in milliseconds, but would never blow a 13A fuse (and would never trip a B32).
20-22A would blow a 3A fuse in milliseconds but would take something like 15 minutes to blow a 13A fuse (and would never trip a B32)
4A would blow a 1A fuse very quickly, but would probably never blow a 3A fuse (and would never trip a 13A fuse or a B32).

You fitted an extractor fan which called for a 3A fuse so, obviously, you fitted an FCU with one. Then when needing a new fan the manufacturer of this one knew what he was doing and did not call for a fuse.
Would you remove the FCU? Of course not, but is it doing any good? Would you fit a 5A or 13A fuse? Probably not, but it doesn't matter, does it?
As you imply, human nature being what it is, I would probably just carry on using whatever was already there. However, if I had fitted the original fan, what I would be continuing to use would probably be a 1A fuse!

Kind Regards, John
 
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D'oh. I knew there'd be an excuse. :)
It's not really an 'excuse' - it's just a reminder that any potential benefit (to the connected equipment) of using a lower-rated fuse only exists if the internal fusing is inadequate.

What I should have done before I killed the fan motor was, after bypassing the thermal cutout, to try a 1A fuse. It is not impossible that such a fuse would have blown before the motor was damaged.

I'm a little surprised that echoes 'Liked' your comment about 'an excuse' since, if I understand him correctly, he would probably have protected the fan with a 1A fuse, if he had had one.

Kind Regards, John
 
15A would blow a 3A fuse in milliseconds, but would never blow a 13A fuse (and would never trip a B32).
20-22A would blow a 3A fuse in milliseconds but would take something like 15 minutes to blow a 13A fuse (and would never trip a B32)
4A would blow a 1A fuse very quickly, but would probably never blow a 3A fuse (and would never trip a B32).
...but how would those currents happen?
 
...but how would those currents happen?
Well, the last of them might well happen with a stalled motor - I didn't measure the current (although it was presumably under about 6A, since the 3A fuse did not blow). As I just wrote, I foolishly did not try a 1A fuse with the bypassed thermal cutout - it's far from impossible that such a fuse would have blown before there was irreparable damage to the fan.

The first two examples I gave were to make the general point, which could be extrapolated to other (larger) loads than baby fans.

Kind Regards, John
 
It just made me smile - I'll 'like' a different post instead. Taking away likes seems a bit mean.
Oh, fair enough - I thought you were agreeing with his implied criticism - which, as I said, seemed inconsistent with what you'd been saying!

I think there might be a case for a third version of 'ratings' - to have "Agree", in addition to "Thanks" and "Like" - since, like you, I currently have to use "Like" for things that make me smile and to express agreement (without having to 'post' it).

Kind Regards, John
 
No more than those that get killed in Europe where there are no fuses in plugs.
Indeed. I frankly doubt that the presence/absence/rating of fuses in plugs has any significant bearing on the number of people 'killed' in any country.

However, that doesn't stop me saying and believing that, in the case of a BS 1363 plug or FCU (into which one has to insert some fuse, unless one is very naughty/stupid), I have so far heard of no credible argument against the approach of using the lowest-rated fuse which is adequate for the load. Even those who believe that it is a 'totally unnecessary' approach do not usually present an argument for not doing it.

Kind Regards, John
 
I'm still trying to think of an equivalent analogy. I.e. doing something unnecessary just because you can. :)

Using 1.5mm² for 6A circuits? Although that would cost a bit more.
Istalling a ring circuit for a loft conversion?

Do you change your car fuses to lower rated ones depending on the actual circuit load?
 
I'm still trying to think of an equivalent analogy. I.e. doing something unnecessary just because you can. :)
Not "just because one can" but, rather "because one can see a very small chance of it doing some good, and no chance of it doing any harm, at no additional cost".
Using 1.5mm² for 6A circuits? Although that would cost a bit more.
As you say, it costs a bit more, but it could only be justified if you could produce an argument that it might conceivably be 'safer' than using 1.0 mm² - and I think you'd struggle to produce such an argument.
Istalling a ring circuit for a loft conversion?
I think that's different, since there will be arguments about the pros and cons of ring finals, no matter what area they are serving.
Do you change your car fuses to lower rated ones depending on the actual circuit load?
I might, if I knew what ratings they have, and felt that reducing those ratings might conceivably afford some benefit - but, quite frankly, I haven't got a clue about their ratings :)

Kind Regards, John
 
Controlling your heating/lighting/kettle/fridge/etc using your phone, or a PC in an internet cafe in Ulan Batur.
Agreed, but I think you would struggle to find any conceivable safety* benefit (probably quite the opposite) in so doing.

* and I mean 'safety' in the broadest sense, including the well-being of the connected equipment.

Kind Regards, John
 

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