Wood burner instalation

[Freddie]

Whether it's in the stuff you posted Oilman or in my Efel instructions it says about insulating flues to stop condensation forming in the chimney's.

As regards the height of chimney's having a better draught--you are vastly incorrect as being an ex-gasman involved in heating applience design in industrial and commercial situations i know that if the exhaust gases cool they will not vacate the flue and can be very dangerous----but i doubt this would happen with a wood stove.

The actual reason chimney's were built so high Oilman is so they didnt choke the nearby inhabitants to death with noxious fumes---industrial chimneys were built high enough to catch the high winds which would disperse the smoke further a field

 

[oilman]

As regards the height of chimney's having a better draught--you are vastly incorrect..........

I am not.
As indicated by the reference to 200ft chimneys. You dealt with gas which uses low temperature differentials. Wood flues are much higher power, with much larger temperatures.

The actual reason chimney's were built so high Oilman is so they didnt choke the nearby inhabitants to death with noxious fumes...........

I don't care WHY they were built so high, they WERE and they WORKED.

(They might not have supposed to have choked the locals, but they do. I know a brickworks where the works and the village were built together, and spread over 3/4 miles or so. The smoke decends to ground level within 1/2 mile, so the village gets it.
I know, I've been there).

 

[Freddie]

As regards the height of chimney's having a better draught--you are vastly incorrect..........

I am not.
As indicated by the reference to 200ft chimneys. You dealt with gas which uses low temperature differentials. Wood flues are much higher power, with much larger temperatures.

The actual reason chimney's were built so high Oilman is so they didnt choke the nearby inhabitants to death with noxious fumes...........

I don't care WHY they were built so high, they WERE and they WORKED.

(They might not have supposed to have choked the locals, but they do. I know a brickworks where the works and the village were built together, and spread over 3/4 miles or so. The smoke decends to ground level within 1/2 mile, so the village gets it.
I know, I've been there).

Oilman if you want to put money on this--i may not know about the new regs but i know vast amount on Flue's and their design and on why the do and dont work.

For a start Gas exhaust gases will be in far excess high temp that any wood can produce simply because gas will burn at a higher temp than wood---one reason why charcoal replaced wood for heat ( cooking ) as it burns at a higher temp.

Also the design--diametre--shape and length of a flue can be critical for the way an applience works and for safety.

I know the high chimneys worked but not for the reasons you stated, but they were also vastly inefficient and sucked too much heat away from whatever they were heating which is one reason why nobody uses them anymore as they are inefficient and hard to control for economic combustion

 

[oilman]

Then you'll know if gas exhausts at high temp, it's inefficient. So you extract the heat, make it efficient then you have a tricky flue to deal with. The wood exhausts work because they are inefficient by comparison so have loads of heat to shift the gases. Which is why the 200ft beasts worked.

You don't need the temperatures charcoal can produce to cook. This was a really silly way of wasting wood if you are going to cook with it. Which is why they have such a problem with the fuel supply in "developing countries". Gasifying wood stoves do the job much better and burn all of the wood as gas. So saying charcoal has replaced for cooking is not true. If you have direct heat to the top of your wood burning stove, you will know you can quite easily boil water on it. We do.

 

[Freddie]

Then you'll know if gas exhausts at high temp, it's inefficient. So you extract the heat, make it efficient then you have a tricky flue to deal with. The wood exhausts work because they are inefficient by comparison so have loads of heat to shift the gases. Which is why the 200ft beasts worked.

You don't need the temperatures charcoal can produce to cook. This was a really silly way of wasting wood if you are going to cook with it. Which is why they have such a problem with the fuel supply in "developing countries". Gasifying wood stoves do the job much better and burn all of the wood as gas. So saying charcoal has replaced for cooking is not true. If you have direct heat to the top of your wood burning stove, you will know you can quite easily boil water on it. We do.

Both points you make are totally incorrect and my fingers wouldnt be able to do the typing to explain things to you ( pity i havent your email ).

But charcoal--in some cooking you require high temps which would require bigger or raging fire so the cook would fry as well thats why charcoal, even though expensive unless you had gas or leccy it was the only way.

Flue gas exhausts do not work the way you discribe and huge chimney's had awlful start up probs which is another reason why fires werent allowed to go out.

One thing though the best range for your stove would not be a chimney of the hieght you have as the manufacturers would have a mean and a high length of flue size for the efficiency of their stove check it out with them

 

[Richard Knight]

Freddie / Oilman,

Many thanks for all your comments. I've not fitted a bracket at the top of the chimney to hold the liner which will also receive some support from the mortar when I seal up the chimney around the liner later today.

All of the lengths are being riveted this morning. Ref Oilmans point 6, I've already put the liner up the chimney once and can hold it OK...it was as a result of doing this that I wanted to physically join the lengths together with rivets.

I'm glad the height of our chimney doesn't seem to be a problem. certainly where I live (France) it's really not uncommon to have chimneys as large as our - in fact, in the village we live in where houses all have 3 or 4 stories it's a regular thing....or it would be if they lined their chimneys.

As for building regulations, being in France I can forget about UK regulations... as for the French, I'm not aware that I need anyones approval etc... They'd be more worried if we were drinking Australian wine I suspect.

Thanks

 

[Freddie]

Good luck Richard---your mortar should be 10-1 mix of a damp not wet consistancy quite a few buckets as well i bet

 

[oilman]

As for building regulations, being in France I can forget about UK regulations... as for the French, I'm not aware that I need anyones approval etc...

Oh?

This will do for starters then, assuming it's the Normandy in France.

 

[Richard Knight]

Interesting link oilman....although really only a help in indicating that there are some rules somewhere and these are more strict where you don't have an existing chimney. Maybe before the next stove install I'll see what I can find out........could be interesting

As for the strictness of fire insurance I imagine the poster is eroniously pointing to the 'fact' believed by most foreigners living here that you have to have a certificate from a chimney sweep each year to prove you chimney has been swept.... if you don't and you have a chimney fire the insurance company won't pay out so the story goes. All completely wrong of course as verified by our own insurance company.

Still, based on the existing facilities (chimney, base, walls etc...) and the work done I'm happy that the chimney is safe to use.

Once again - many thanks to both of you for all your help and useful comments.

Richard

p.s. everything now in place, mortar drying (you were right Freddie....a few buckets!) on the chimney top as I speak. Thankfully nice and sunny (Languedoc near Spain...as opposed to Normandy)

 

[sheeny]

sorry that was funny....