Wood burner instalation

[Freddie]

Oilman you are correct as regards the Efel Harmony, but that is just one recomended way of fitting their stoves,-----mine is less than 12 months old-----and that is a recomended way of fitting not a regulation.

As regards your regulations, i can find nothing in there that says a chimney HAS to have a liner- stainless steel -installed into any chimney -EXCEPT where you use a factory made flue for a timber and plasterboard chimney.

I cannot find where it states you NEED TO HAVE a stainless steel flue liner installed into an existing/traditional--brick/concrete/concrete block/stone chimney for use with a stove--can you point this out please?

 

[sidecar_jon]

just a question about building regs re a new stove.... how do "they" know if you don't tell them. (tho everything said here seems sensible).. i once made a stove for a boat i lived on it was a big fire extinguisher upside down cup at bottom to receive the ashes and i went up the scrapies and got a length of street lamp pipe as the chimney.


i might just add a warning, should anyone be contemplating such a project, always , always make sure the fire extinguisher is completely empty before unscrewing the top. As a full extinguisher can easily fill half a skip with foam... know what i mean.

 

[Freddie]

just a question about building regs re a new stove.... how do "they" know if you don't tell them. (tho everything said here seems sensible).. i once made a stove for a boat i lived on it was a big fire extinguisher upside down cup at bottom to receive the ashes and i went up the scrapies and got a length of street lamp pipe as the chimney.


i might just add a warning, should anyone be contemplating such a project, always , always make sure the fire extinguisher is completely empty before unscrewing the top. As a full extinguisher can easily fill half a skip with foam... know what i mean.

Point is as far as i can see there are no building regs that apply to these installations just recomendations

 

[sidecar_jon]

oh i see.... maybe useful to me this winter.

 

[oilman]

Nobody will know if you don't tell them, but if you ask building control they will put you in the picture. Regulations apply to ALL flues, and , as well, a flue data plate has to be fitted as well. Look here if you don't believe me.

 

[Freddie]

Nobody will know if you don't tell them, but if you ask building control they will put you in the picture. Regulations apply to ALL flues, and , as well, a flue data plate has to be fitted as well. Look here if you don't believe me.

All that is is regards a flue liner installation for oil and gas, it says nothing about solid fuel or wood burning stoves, infact i can find no regs regarding wood stoves and i have asked a few people aswell who think i am mad

 

[sidecar_jon]

what exactly does the linner do?... i was invited to peer up a friends chimney that they had just put an aga in... it had to be from about 1500 and big enough to get an adult up to the top! with a linner waveing about the space from the aga to the pot. They need to open up their liveing room fire place to tho and that feeds into the same chimney. Wondering how thats going to work..... where they live i think they actuly hunt and eat building inspectors!

 

[Freddie]

what exactly does the linner do?... i was invited to peer up a friends chimney that they had just put an aga in... it had to be from about 1500 and big enough to get an adult up to the top! with a linner waveing about the space from the aga to the pot. They need to open up their liveing room fire place to tho and that feeds into the same chimney. Wondering how thats going to work..... where they live i think they actuly hunt and eat building inspectors!

Well your Santa chimney is the kind that wont work with a stove as the gases can cool before they reach the top causing big problems, so you drop a liner which is 6" diameter down the chimney and connect onto your stove which will stop the gases just hanging around in your chimney.

You then pack the top and bottom out with fibreglass insallation and seal the top and bottom

 

[oilman]

...............
All that is is regards a flue liner installation for oil and gas, it says nothing about solid fuel or wood burning stoves, infact i can find no regs regarding wood stoves and i have asked a few people aswell who think i am mad

Additional Provisions for Appliances Burning Solid Fuel



Use a liner with the correct independent certification.



Page 29, Paragraph 2.20

"Lining or relining flues may be building work and, in any case, such work should be carried out so that the objectives of J2 to J4 are met. Existing flues being re-used should be checked as described in Paragraph 1.36. Ways of meeting the requirement include the use of:



a) liners whose performance is independently certified as being at least equal to that corresponding to the designation T450 N2 S D3, as described in BS EN 1443:1999, such as:-



i) factory-made flue lining systems such as double skin flexible stainless steel lining which is independently certified as suitable for use with solid fuel burning appliances; ........."

This is from the page I referred you to, what don't you understand in the sentence "Additional Provisions for Appliances Burning Solid Fuel" that wood is somehow in your view apparently outside the classification "SOLID FUEL"?

 

[sidecar_jon]

Well your Santa chimney is the kind that wont work with a stove as the gases can cool before they reach the top causing big problems, so you drop a liner which is 6" diameter down the chimney and connect onto your stove which will stop the gases just hanging around in your chimney.

You then pack the top and bottom out with fibreglass insallation and seal the top and bottom

ah yes of course, i presume it was made for a roreing log fire and a hog turning on a spit all day by the look of it.

 

[Freddie]

...............
All that is is regards a flue liner installation for oil and gas, it says nothing about solid fuel or wood burning stoves, infact i can find no regs regarding wood stoves and i have asked a few people aswell who think i am mad

Additional Provisions for Appliances Burning Solid Fuel



Use a liner with the correct independent certification.



Page 29, Paragraph 2.20

"Lining or relining flues may be building work and, in any case, such work should be carried out so that the objectives of J2 to J4 are met. Existing flues being re-used should be checked as described in Paragraph 1.36. Ways of meeting the requirement include the use of:



a) liners whose performance is independently certified as being at least equal to that corresponding to the designation T450 N2 S D3, as described in BS EN 1443:1999, such as:-



i) factory-made flue lining systems such as double skin flexible stainless steel lining which is independently certified as suitable for use with solid fuel burning appliances; ........."

This is from the page I referred you to, what don't you understand in the sentence "Additional Provisions for Appliances Burning Solid Fuel" that wood is somehow in your view apparently outside the classification "SOLID FUEL"?

I dont think you understand Oilman, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, that is for a chimney made basically out of plasterboard and timber ( new fangled way ) It has nothing to do with block/brick/stone/concrete/breezeblock in otherwords traditional chimneys.

Infact if you build a traditional chimney you insert terracotta flue sgment liners as you build it i think they are about 24" segments and you pack the liners with 10-1 mix sand and cement or you buy this new insullating stuff

 

[oilman]

It has to do with ANY flue!!! If the terra cotta ones comply, fine, if they don't, not fine. If it's new build, you can build it out of anything that complies with regs and suits the appliance. If it's an existing chimney and it's 100 years old it probably won't comply or suit the appliance so you line it with something that does. It is irrelevant whether the thing is built of plasterboard, sugar paper, Andrex rolls or anything else you like to mention, IF IT DOESN'T MEET THE RELEVANT SPEC, IT DON'T COMPLY, and if you fit it you commit a criminal offence. That's the legal position, but you can do what you like if it doesn't concern you. However when someone asks for advice I expect to give them information which I would give if I was going to charge them for it, and I then might glance on the non-legal alternatives.

You asked me where the relevant requirements were, I've shown you, if you cannot or will not accept it that is your responsibility.

 

[Freddie]

It has to do with ANY flue!!! If the terra cotta ones comply, fine, if they don't, not fine. If it's new build, you can build it out of anything that complies with regs and suits the appliance. If it's an existing chimney and it's 100 years old it probably won't comply or suit the appliance so you line it with something that does. It is irrelevant whether the thing is built of plasterboard, sugar paper, Andrex rolls or anything else you like to mention, IF IT DOESN'T MEET THE RELEVANT SPEC, IT DON'T COMPLY, and if you fit it you commit a criminal offence. That's the legal position, but you can do what you like if it doesn't concern you. However when someone asks for advice I expect to give them information which I would give if I was going to charge them for it, and I then might glance on the non-legal alternatives.

You asked me where the relevant requirements were, I've shown you, if you cannot or will not accept it that is your responsibility.

Its not that i can or cant accept anything its just that reading through the stuff you referred to again i cant see where it says that stoves of anykind HAVE to be installed with a stainless steel flue liner in any chimney and in the instructions of my November 2004 Efel Harmony it says nothing of REGULATIONS just recomendations.

 

[oilman]

All new flues and those involving the installation of a new appliance or disused flues brought back into use have to comply with building regs. They have to meet specifications so the compliance can be demonstrated. They don't have to be stainless steel, but the flexi liners are one (and the commonest) way of upgrading existing flues so they comply. Another way of meeting building regs is to follow manufacturers recommendations, hence the EFEL info. Why not ring EFEL? They know their stuff and are probably one of the best sources of information on flues, problems and solving them. (For their stoves anyway).

One thing that wont comply is pushing a stubb of pipe through a register plate into the chimney void. (Like wot I did here)

 

[Freddie]

All new flues and those involving the installation of a new appliance or disused flues brought back into use have to comply with building regs. They have to meet specifications so the compliance can be demonstrated. They don't have to be stainless steel, but the flexi liners are one (and the commonest) way of upgrading existing flues so they comply. Another way of meeting building regs is to follow manufacturers recommendations, hence the EFEL info. Why not ring EFEL? They know their stuff and are probably one of the best sources of information on flues, problems and solving them. (For their stoves anyway).

One thing that wont comply is pushing a stubb of pipe through a register plate into the chimney void. (Like wot I did here)

Well i have read all your stuff and i cant see it and after having a right game installing my Efel i wiush i had known all this before because if you are right it means all my struggle has been a waste of time and it could have been solved by buying a flue liner