Worcester Bosch 28i Boiler

[Razor900]

You can, of course, go for a more powerful boiler which will give you a greater hot water flow rate, but you'll be sacrificing heating efficiency

How so?

The vast majority of combis only supply heating at 24kw maximum. So even if it does hot water at say 38kw. 24kw is the max for heating. And on a lot of combis you can range rate the heating to whatever output is required. Not sure about the intergas. But I install vaillant. I always range rate the heating to what is required.

Because an 18kW (or 12kW) system boiler will modulate down to a lower output than a 36kW combi. Helps control cycling when the house is up to temp

 

[jeff the gasman]

I would go with the intergas as Dan said. Not because he said it, but because I've just fitted my first. According to the guys who fit a lot of them, they are the mutz nuts.
I now agree they are a quality appliance and will certainly be fitting more.
A combi will serve two showers perfectly adequately. I don't have a problem in my house.

 

[muggles]

You can, of course, go for a more powerful boiler which will give you a greater hot water flow rate, but you'll be sacrificing heating efficiency

How so?

The vast majority of combis only supply heating at 24kw maximum. So even if it does hot water at say 38kw. 24kw is the max for heating. And on a lot of combis you can range rate the heating to whatever output is required. Not sure about the intergas. But I install vaillant. I always range rate the heating to what is required.

What rubbish, even Vaillant go up to 30kW on heating on their combi's, no idea where your 24kW maximum has come from. Humour me if you like and find me a couple of examples of, say, 36kW combi's that only do 24kW to heating. I reckon you'll struggle

It's irrelevant anyway - the minimum output is what's important for efficiency, and higher output boilers will have a higher minimum than their lower output counterparts. This results in increased cycling and decreased efficiency

 

[TCCHeating]

Well I fitted an ideal logic + 35 this week and pretty sure it only went up to 24kw for heating. Always thought that the new vaillant only went up to 24kw on heating. Certainly the 825 and 832 does. Dont fit many of the 838's but have just read that they will do up to 28kw. Wasn't trying to start an argument mate. Was just wondering how a bigger combi might be less efficient for heating. And you have explained that for me by saying that a bigger boiler won't modulate down to the same rate that a smaller boiler will. So thanks. Appreciate that because I honestly wasn't aware.

So let's shake hands (virtually) and alls good

 

[simond]

Nest of vipers sometimes on here

 

[simond]

In the interests of balance;

Ask yourself whether Intergas;

-are open all week, and weekend, for your call
-have 320 dedicated service technicians in the UK on the road working 7 days a week
-have a market share in the UK than is even 5% of what any one of the two market leaders sell
-have a solid financial backing in the UK
-have been selling in the UK for how many years?
-have taken steps to deal with limescale buildup, which is a problem in hard water areas in a bithermic heat exchanger boiler?
-have a relationship with other importers such as Atmos which used to sell a near identical product
-were wise to use a casing made of plastic

There are a few on here, the vocal minority, that push Intergas loudly because they believe it is a good product.

Time will tell, but the concept of a bithermic heat exchanger is not new, Potterton, Worcester and Ferroli have all used this design in the past. And subsequently dropped the idea.

See the discontinued Ferroli Modena below;

http://www.ferroli.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/05/Modena-102-Manual.pdf

Perhaps I have been around too long, but it irritates to see old ideas being touted as new.

 

[Agile]

Yes, but the killer is usually the minimum heat output. For a typical house with a heat loss under 12 kW that will mean serious on/off modulating thus reducing efficiency.

A 38 kW combi usually has a minimum on 10 kW or more.

A 24 kW usually 7 kW.

Vokera have realised the importance of the minimum power out and produced a model with a 10;1 turn down ratio. Sadly the benefit of this will be lost on most installers!

 

[Agile]

Time will tell, but the concept of a bithermic heat exchanger is not new, Potterton, Worcester and Ferroli have all used this design in the past. And subsequently dropped the idea.

In the interest of fairness too one should mention that Vokera also made many bithermic models. Probably dropped them all now too.

 

[muggles]

OK, I'll bite....

In the interests of balance;

Ask yourself whether Intergas;

-are open all week, and weekend, for your call
-have 320 dedicated service technicians in the UK on the road working 7 days a week Nope, they're reliable enough not to need that kind of backup

-have a market share in the UK than is even 5% of what any one of the two market leaders sell
They're a boiler manufacturer, not a marketing machine, and they've not been in the UK as long as the "market leaders" either so it's hardly a fair comparison. Nevertheless, better to have a small number of very good products than a large number of average ones

-have a solid financial backing in the UK Haven't seen figures, but as they're trying to grow the business I'd expect them to be well backed

-have been selling in the UK for how many years?
Long enough

-have taken steps to deal with limescale buildup, which is a problem in hard water areas in a bithermic heat exchanger boiler?
Check your benchmarks and you'll see that it's a requirement to fit a scale reducer where water hardness exceeds 200ppm. I belive this is for all boilers, not just IG

-have a relationship with other importers such as Atmos which used to sell a near identical product
Does this matter?

-were wise to use a casing made of plastic
Looks pretty metallic to me. Could equally ask whether Worcester/Vaillant etc are wise to use plastic and rubber gas pipes/diverter valves/auto air vents etc etc

There are a few on here, the vocal minority, that push Intergas loudly because they believe it is a good product.

Time will tell, but the concept of a bithermic heat exchanger is not new, Potterton, Worcester and Ferroli have all used this design in the past. And subsequently dropped the idea.

See the discontinued Ferroli Modena below;

http://www.ferroli.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/05/Modena-102-Manual.pdf

Perhaps I have been around too long, but it irritates to see old ideas being touted as new.

I dont think anyone's said it's a new concept, but they have found a way of making it work

 

[Dan Robinson]

Week one of the vocal minority here has been fitting Intergas boilers here for over ten years without worry.

Limescale I'd taken care of by installing as per the instructions.

One wonders why Wooshitter Botch needs all those engineers..... Oh yeah... Warranty's, which is keeping them pretty busy at the moment as they are not available for service calls at the moment due to being too busy fixing their ****boxes.

-have a relationship with other importers such as Atmos which used to sell a near identical product
-were wise to use a casing made of plastic

You'll have to help me here....

Atmos sold the old HE model.

Nothing wrong with plastic cases. Better then plastic components .


Think you're being a smudge disingenuous there dude.

 

[Dan Robinson]

-are open all week, and weekend, for your call
-have 320 dedicated service technicians in the UK on the road working 7 days a week

Because otherwise the back log would be mental.

 

[simond]

I haven't got much against Atmos/Intergas units, other than I find their sales pitch of the '4 moving parts' is plain misleading, because so many others have done it before. They know it has been done before, so why do they try and make out it is a new approach?

Since Worcester sell over 30 times more boilers a year than Intergas, the ratio of service techs does not seem at all disproportionate.

I think your constant misspelling of the Worcester name tells us how impartial you are, and could be viewed as a little childish, not to mention arrogant, if you want to present a balanced view on this forum to those outside the trade.

 

[Razor900]

Simon you conveniently forget to mention that Worcester tried to buy Intergas out. Can I provide proof? No that's how business works. Am I in a position to know? Yes I am.

And that is 100% fact

Every boiler breaks down, some more than most. I hear a there are a lot of problems at the moment with the Worcester compacts

 

[Dan Robinson]

I haven't got much against Atmos/Intergas units, other than I find their sales pitch of the '4 moving parts' is plain misleading, because so many others have done it before. They know it has been done before, so why do they try and make out it is a new approach?

Since Worcester sell over 30 times more boilers a year than Intergas, the ratio of service techs does not seem at all disproportionate.

I think your constant misspelling of the Worcester name tells us how impartial you are, and could be viewed as a little childish, not to mention arrogant, if you want to present a balanced view on this forum to those outside the trade.

Funnily enough, we used to be Wooshitter accredited.

Yes, I took several days out if my working week to go all the way to their training centres to strip they're rubbish down and get their funky credit card electrical test thingy.

Didn't fit many after that

 

[TCCHeating]

Yes, I took several days out if my working week to go all the way to their training centres to strip they're rubbish down and get their funky credit card electrical test thingy.

Didn't fit many after that

You were short changed there Dan. I got a pen a plastic bleed key and a flow cup and thermometer as well as the electrical test card.

All top quality merchandise