Xmas lights . . RCD and Timer . . . . . . . . . .

[TheSalad]

Hi Folks, grateful for some advice please. Never had any oudoor xmas lights before but now I have a nice tree on the driveway in which I'd like to put in some simple white lights ready for December. Power will come from a socket in the garage, this lead will go to a weatherproof box and the lead for the lights will go from there.

Can I put the RCD in the garage socket (do I need an RCD?) and the timer in the weatherproof box? Is this set up safe?

I know some may groan at xmas lights question but I would appreciate some help as I want to have the safest setup.

Many thanks.

 

[JohnW2]

Can I put the RCD in the garage socket (do I need an RCD?)...

You could put an RCD in the garage socket, but if that socket is already on an RCD-protected circuit, then you wouldn't really need an additional RCD (unless you want 'redundancy').

.... and the timer in the weatherproof box?

It would have to be very weatherproof. Can't you put the timer in the garage?

Kind Regards, John

 

[TheSalad]

The house electrics are covered by a RCD, so guess another RCD won't add any value will it?

This is the weather proof box I purchased. Should be okay hidden behind a bush in the garden shouldn't it?

 

[Tigercubrider]

How far is the house from the tree?
Loads of 12v Led lights these days so a lot safer to run 12v outside

 

[TheSalad]

How far is the house from the tree?
Loads of 12v Led lights these days so a lot safer to run 12v outside

Yes, they are 12v leds. And about 5metres from the garage.

Not sure what you mean . . . . do you mean have a permanent supply outside? Or something else?

Sorry not so bright when it comes to elecs.

 

[Tigercubrider]

What I meant was to keep the mains voltage inside under cover and only use low voltage outside.

 

[winston1]

What I meant was to keep the mains voltage inside under cover and only use low voltage outside.

But mains is low voltage by definition!

Once again we have the problem of people not using the correct term.

 

[stillp]

But mains is low voltage by definition!

Once again we have the problem of people not using the correct term.

I was thinking today... if I were to buy a 12V lamp that the manufacturer had sold as "low voltage", and run it at 50 V, could I claim from the manufacturer when it failed?

 

[JohnW2]

I was thinking today... if I were to buy a 12V lamp that the manufacturer had sold as "low voltage", and run it at 50 V, could I claim from the manufacturer when it failed?

I think it behoves the purchaser to buy a lamp with an appropriate voltage for the application - "ELV" and "LV" define very wide voltage ranges.

If you bought a 12V lamp correctly described as 'ELV' and tried to use it at 49V (assuming AC), you would have no-one but yourself to blame.

I'd be interested to know how a court would feel about the converse. 'Correct'/technical definitions aside, I remain of the view that 'common usage' on the part of the vast majority of the general public regards "Low Voltage" as being what you would call ELV (maybe even lower than the upper limit of ELV) - I struggle to recall ever having seen "ELV" written on a consumer product. If a member of that general public bought equipment described as 'Low Voltage', believing that to be a 'safe' option for the environment concerned, and consequently came to harm because it was actually 230V equipment, I wonder if a court might possibly be sympathetic to the argument that the harm had resulted from the product having been labelled contrary to such widespread 'common usage' on the part of the target market of purchasers?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

Once again we have the problem of people not using the correct term.

 

[JohnW2]

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Indeed - but, in terms of this particular issue, winston seems to be (somewhat unfortunately, IMO) far from alone.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

I wonder if a court might possibly be sympathetic to the argument that the harm had resulted from the product having been labelled contrary to such widespread 'common usage' on the part of the target market of purchasers

I don't know. I guess it would depend on the Court whether they would consider an Internationally-agreed standard to be more or less important than popular opinion in the UK. I also don't know if the same misconception exists in other countries.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I really don't ascribe to this view that such things are subject to democracy.

This is not just a case of people becoming correct just because a lot (majority?) of them - and some manufacturers - are wrong.
This also results in the fact that those who are and were actually correct would unnecessarily have to change their view.

Were you to ask the population what seven times eight was and a majority got it wrong would you then propose that it should be changed?
Or if they were asked what was the capital of a country and the majority got it wrong, would you advocate moving the seat of government of that country.

If some people think <50V is 'low voltage'; what do they think >50V is? Do they think they have high voltage fridges etc?
That they get it wrong is because they do not know; not because the definition is wrong.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't know. I guess it would depend on the Court whether they would consider an Internationally-agreed standard to be more or less important than popular opinion in the UK.

Indeed it would. However, it would seem that the more sensible of judges tend to give considerable weight to what they feel 'a reasonable/average man could reasonably be expected to do/know/believe' (or words to that effect).

In the situation we're talking about, I suspect that, human nature being what it is, a lot might well depend upon what the judge him/herself believed "low voltage lighting" to be. If the judge him/herself believed that such a description precluded the possibility that the product operated at 230V (or, come to that, 900V!), then (s)he might be quite sympathetic towards 'a member of the general public' who thought likewise.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

A Coroner has been known to accept the definition in the Standard...