Your help required ... Johnson & Starley Economaire 65 not heating

[Ray1000]

It gets worse… with it being new the J&S installer was obliged to to ask the Alpha Engineer to visit … within minutes he pronounced the failure to fire up was due to low gas pressure - 3mb instead of 20mb.

The emergency gas people found there is a governor installed - apparently the property used to receive “medium” pressure but now receives “low” pressure. The medium pressure governor rendering the supplied low pressure non-existent … I understand.

They are coming back today to remove the governor after which the boiler can be commissioned by J&S.

Thank you for your continued interest

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Sounds like this has been the issue all along, surely it should have been picked up on long before this stage?

 

[Ray1000]

Almost certainly, every detail had been checked or changed leaving only the wiring loom the only suspect. It was unusual as it was the only gas appliance in the house and that the DHW still worked on the old boiler … but the Alpha Engineer says it’s quite likely there was enough pressure for that to function. It is likely been taken for granted the gas pressure was OK and never checked, even though they had presence of mind to quote for increasing the pipe diameter.

 

[Ray1000]

The gas people are installing 35 metres of yellow plastic through the old 2" steel pipe out onto the pavement this weekend.

Quite apart from what may have been missed in November, you would think the pressure would have been checked last Thursday before the job was started. I understand modern boilers are more particular about a proper, constant gas supply.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

The gas people are installing 35 metres of yellow plastic through the old 2" steel pipe out onto the pavement this weekend.

Insertion of new plastic pipe through old cast and steel pipework is common practice in the Gas Transportation world. Saves a fortune on excavation costs, dig a pit at either end and then just push the new pipe through between the two points.

 

[dilalio]

Going back to when the supply was changed from medium to low pressure...
I would have thought that all meters/governors would/should have been changed at the same time!

Sounds like a lot of things got missed!

And the owner should be seeking some form of compensation - from several parties!

 

[Ray1000]

I’m sure you’re right… the gas people yesterday said they only act when asked !

 

[Ray1000]

I was expecting the “governor” would be on view maybe at the side of the meter but when I asked they painted a picture it was part of the old pipe work that was being dispensed with never to be seen again.

 

[dilalio]

I was expecting the “governor” would be on view maybe at the side of the meter but when I asked they painted a picture it was part of the old pipe work that was being dispensed with never to be seen again.

A medium pressure regulator looks very different to a standard one IME... Have only encountered 2 MPMs in 5 years.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Almost certainly, every detail had been checked or changed leaving only the wiring loom the only suspect. It was unusual as it was the only gas appliance in the house and that the DHW still worked on the old boiler … but the Alpha Engineer says it’s quite likely there was enough pressure for that to function.

Checking the gas pressure is adequate, under the full load of an appliance, is one of the very basic checks, for the safe operation of the appliance. So the chances are, there was nothing at all wrong with your original boiler, other than the pressure supplied to it. The whole story reeks of incredible level of incompetence.

 

[Ray1000]

Thank you Harry, when I've got my "case" written out I'll send it to you, and others, to make sure I've understood everything properly.

In their defence they may say the pressure must have been OK because the DHW continued to fire up since November 2025 - but it doesn't alter the fact it should have been checked last Thursday morning before removing the original boiler to make certain there was the correct supply for the new boiler. It could not have been OK on Thursday morning and not OK on Thursday afternoon when the Alpha Engineer arrived.

For people just starting out it's worth remembering if you can't find a fault it could be because there isn't one.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

In their defence they may say the pressure must have been OK because the DHW continued to fire up since November 2025

I know nowt about those systems, but it could be that the gas demand for DHW, was much less than when CH was required, and so the pressure/flow was adequate for that.

Either way, I think you have a claim against the company, for a considerable amount of time, and money wasted, due to their total incompetence, in failing to do even the most basic of checks.

 

[Ray1000]

In the interest of fairness to the installer it's been pointed out to me on here there is a problem identifying working gas pressure without a working appliance, which is what happened in this case ... they were called out because the central heating wouldn't fire up, and there was only one gas appliance in the property, so nothing else to check the pressure with.

It's not yet clear to me how Cadent quantify the gas supply, or how Alpha knew instantly it was too low, without a working appliance.

I had a conversation with Johnson Starley on 20th November 2025 where I asked if they could list for me all of the things that would prevent it firing up ... he pointed me in the direction of their extensive Trouble Shooting guide ... it doesn't seem to mention the gas supply, pressure or flow at all, as though it is something that's taken for granted.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

In the interest of fairness to the installer it's been pointed out to me on here there is a problem identifying working gas pressure without a working appliance, which is what happened in this case ... they were called out because the central heating wouldn't fire up, and there was only one gas appliance in the property, so nothing else to check the pressure with.

If monitored, I would expect the pressure level would show a dip, when it attempted to ignite.

 

[dilalio]

If monitored, I would expect the pressure level would show a dip, when it attempted to ignite.

Yes. That is a test that would show a significant drop.