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Zinsser Bullseye 123 peeling on ceiling; depressed

Discussion in 'Decorating and Painting' started by Adaptor, 29 Dec 2010.

  1. Adaptor

    Adaptor

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    I have a distemper ceiling and I washed off what came of easily with hot soapy water and a scourer about 5 times, but there is still some really hard stuff not wanting to move, so I used Zinsser Bullseye 123 as a primer sealer as was recommended by Brewers.

    A week later i am filling a few dents prior to emulsion and saw a small bump by a crack I was about to fill. I went to scrape it off the ceiling with a glass scaper blade and the effing bullseye paint that a scraped off peeled back fairly easily.

    This was not what I expected to happen. The paint is quite 'flexible'. If the paint wants to stick to itself then I supose that the less strong bond between the ceiling and the paint will 'give' if it's put under unusual 'pressure' by me peeling it.

    Do I peel the whole lot off?

    I'm tempted to patch it up and hope that there is sufficient adhesion for a couple of years, after which I will get the lot replastered as i have spent such a lot of time on prep and am gutted

    Should I compalin to Brewers and get a refund?

    I've got another ceiling to do
     
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  3. jondecs

    jondecs

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    Distemper is powdery, anything applied to the powder face will not make the powder stick to the plaster. (might have helped if you thinned the Zinsser 50/50%) modern paints/primers will just form a skin on the surface of the powder. this will craze and crack etc..etc.
    So I clean as much as poss. and give it a coat of Stabilising primer. Thinned with white spirit The smell is awfull but!!!. (check you get the solvent based) then two coats of your emulsion.
    The stabiliser thinned proper will soak thro the distemper and hold onto the ceiling/ plaster. Old fashioned but tried and tested 40yr + ;)

    Good luck
     
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  4. Adaptor

    Adaptor

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    Thanks for your post.

    Please can you suggest a suitable primer sealer.

    That paint was recommended for distemper too. That is what is so gutting.


     
  5. jondecs

    jondecs

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    Did you thin the 123 down with clean water??

    I would normally thin it down on distemper. Too thick and it will just skin over without penetrating. But! I prefer to use a
    stabiliser primer As I have the most success with it over the yrs.

    Tho you wont find this remedy in any books ;)
    http://www.icipaints.co.uk/products/info/dulux_trade_weathershield_stabilising_primer.jsp

    Get 2 1/2 litre it will do for the other room? Needs to be thinned so it will soak thro the distemper.

    Wait for it to dry Overnight. then just apply emulsion or whatever..
    (Important that it's thinned so it dont leave a glossy surface for emulsion )

    Good luck
     
  6. joe-90

    joe-90

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    ICI say it must NOT be thinned.

    A simple thinned (20%) oil based undercoat will do the same job without the expense.
     
  7. jondecs

    jondecs

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    I know ;) Bad advice on tin .. you might know what i mean if you ever used it .. I.E avoid leaving a glossy surface ;)


    Thined undercoat wont help with distemper... :rolleyes:


    Happy new year ~~~
     
  8. TheDec

    TheDec

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    I would follow the advice given by jondecs here, you should always apply either a thined stabiliser or oil based primer sealer to distemper. And the application of an oil based undercoat will not solve your problem.

    And a very happy New Year to you all

    Dec.
     
  9. joe-90

    joe-90

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    Thinned oil undercoat is fine. Give me the science that says it isn't. Been using it for decades.
     
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  11. joe-90

    joe-90

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    Yeah. ICI haven't a clue. :rolleyes:
     
  12. TheDec

    TheDec

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    Joe you ask for a scientific approach on New Years Eve!! And theres me enjoying a good ale and single malt. Remarkable!!

    The start then of that science, the binder of solvent borne undercoats is Alkyd whereas the binder of both oil based primer sealers and stabilisers is oleresin.

    Enough for now hey

    Dec.
     
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  13. joe-90

    joe-90

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    Nothing to do with that. As long as the powder is thoroughly wetted it will dry hard and stuck. It matters not what type of paint is used as long as the powder is wet.
     
  14. jondecs

    jondecs

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    ;)

    U mean googling lol


    Happy new year all
     
  15. TheDec

    TheDec

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    Last one for me on this thread for 2010.

    Firstly I would like to extend my thanks to jondecs for thanking me.

    To conclude tonights session I will say this

    Joe.

    Distemper can often be related to as hard or soft, the dependance here will greatly relate to whether it is caesin or otherwise borne. Whilst for a limited time one will repel moisture the other will absorb it.

    Joe, to wet the surface and then apply any solvent borne coating is both foolhardy and misguiding, these coatings are still in great demand with regard to such places as historic buildings. Whilst these are not so much difficult to apply the correct approach to thier denial of life has to be maintainted in the correct manor.

    I hope you have all had a merry xmas and wish you all a very happy new year.

    All the best

    Dec.
     
  16. joe-90

    joe-90

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    It's not a historic building. All he has to do is wet the surface to get rid of the powder and the paint will adhere to the surface beneath - and that's what DIDN'T happen with his Zinnser - it sat on top of the powder and then just peeled off. The secret is thoroughly wetting the powdery surface so that it is a no longer a powder but part of the new paint surface. Dunno why you can't see that. :confused:
     
  17. TheDec

    TheDec

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    Wetting the distemper will only soften it and cause it to become even more unstable, you can however using copius amounts of warm water and a scraper remove the majority of it before applying the sealer.

    Yet to wet the surface and then attempt to seal it it is sheer lunacy.

    Dec.
     
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