Extension woes!

What a fantastic forum! I’ve looked in a few times recently, and seen some really helpful posts, so thought I’d register and see if any of you could offer me some advice. Ignore the name, I’m female btw, so go easy on me!

We had an insurance payout after a critical illness claim for me, and have been looking into extending our house, something that always seems to be out of reach! Though I know the money will probably fall well short and a mortgage top up will be on the cards, we just don’t know what to do for the best. We had an informal chat with planning and showed them what we’d like to do. They didn’t think there would be an issue with interfering with the neighbours, but said a possible stumbling point could be whether they think it upsets the ‘openness’ of the street. Obviously until we submit a formal application we won’t know whether it is a problem or not. But what should we do now? We are thinking of getting some quotes for what we think we’d like, then applying for PP with our own drawings if it looks affordable, or should we employ the services of an architect first to do accurate drawings, or even show us different ways that we haven’t worked out? Or should we talk to the mortgage co. first and see what they would be willing to lend? And is it really a better option than moving, I’ve read some articles that suggest the cost of extending may not be that much different to buying a ready made bigger home. I grew up hearing it was cheaper to extend than move! My husband is a good diyer, but won't be able to do any of the really scary building stuff.
Basically, extending is a new thing for us and I’m sorry if my questions seem silly, but I’m in a complete muddle! We seem to get our hopes up and think it’s possible, then speak to people and find it is an unrealistic achievement. Just wanted to hear from people that had been there, done it, or are going thru it now, and the best course of action. Thank you for any advice offered.

Jonah177 said:

We had an informal chat with planning and showed them what we’d like to do. They didn’t think there would be an issue with interfering with the neighbours, but said a possible stumbling point could be whether they think it upsets the ‘openness’ of the street.

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You have started on the right track which makes a change!

Jonah177 said:

We are thinking of getting some quotes for what we think we’d like

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Extensions cost in the region of £900-£1000 per m2 per floor for a typical extension with mid-range finishes to build, (professional fees on top) so that should give you a ballpark figure to think about. This will obviously be cheaper depending on what hubby is doing. Careful planning will be required if he is doing stuff whilst the main builders are on site rather than just the decorating at the end for example, after the builders have left site.

then do this

Jonah177 said:

talk to the mortgage co. first and see what they would be willing to lend?

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then this

Jonah177 said:

applying for PP with our own drawings if it looks affordable, or should we employ the services of an architect first to do accurate drawings, or even show us different ways that we haven’t worked out?

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You can put your own Application together if you're handy with a pencil and feel up to it or you could employ a fully fledged Architect but unless you have 'Grand Designs' in mind it in which case it would be more cost effective to use an Architectural Technician.

Jonah177 said:

And is it really a better option than moving, I’ve read some articles that suggest the cost of extending may not be that much different to buying a ready made bigger home.

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That's not really something the Forum can help with, it depends on what your existing house is like, what you owe on it, how long you intend to stay, your geographical area, how easy it would be for you to buy somewhere else instead etc etc loads of factors. Have a chat with a few estate agents maybe?

The following Professional fees are approximate as we have no idea as to what you are planning but are likely to be in the region of
Technician Planning Application Fees around £500-£1000
Technician Building Regulations Fees around £500-£1000
Structural Engineers fees around £500-£1000 (may not be required at all depends what you're doing)
Planning Application Local Authority Fee £150
Building Regulations Local Authority Fees around £400-£550

Hi

You may not be aware of how intrusive the work alone would be on your personal life and how much stress it can cause if things go wrong and I would thoroughly recommend that you appoint an architectural practice to deliver the whole project.

Do some research before you jump in, check out which Architects have been doing similar projects in your area (check out recent planning applications, jobs going on in your area, internet search) - select say 5 and give them a call to discuss your proposal, then if they are interested ask for some references say minimum of 3 and check them out, then make a shortlist and get them around to discuss the project in finer detail.
Architects work to an RIBA form of contract, and you should get each one you shortlist to explain what is covered and more importantly what is not covered in their fee's.

Once you are satisfied you have done all your homework, make a decision on the Architect of your choice and appoint them.

All the best in your endeavours - whichever path you choose to follow!

The extending / moving question is difficult to answer.

We spent £75k on an extension which probably increased the value of our house at the time by......£75k! However I guess once it's built you will get any percentage increase on your house price on that bit as well. And once built you don't have to worry about labour and material price increases.

The advantages of extending are being able to stay in a home & area you know and like and having the layout you want.

alittlerespect said:

I would thoroughly recommend that you appoint an architectural practice to deliver the whole project.

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Why? There's loads of technicians out there who will do a great job and for less money? Any Architects Practice that's used other than a sole trader then a technician will end up producing the work anyway! Certainly don't dismiss techys alittlerespect! Worry about selecting the right builder by all means!

FMT

No disrespect meant to Architectural Technicians (AT)

I am looking at this from the position that J177 will appoint someone to deliver the whole project (so that J177 avoids all the personal stress that is incumbent in managing a building project), and if the AT practice is set up so that it can deliver the whole deal (design and build) from feasibility to completion then they should be considered, but the customer should still follow the same vetting procedure before they go making any appointment!

Having a professional company deliver the whole project should get over the issue of 'cowboy builders'!

Regards

alittlerespect, no offence taken, I'm just intrigued with your view that techy's can't do the whole deal as you put it, from conception - tendering (if the drawings are good and the right builder is chosen, site management is seldom required and is a waste of money). I concur with your sentiments in choosing an agent and the OP should still follow the same vetting procedure before they go making any appointment whoever that may be! again though I'd add that friends and family can be a very reliable source for finding a suitable agent.

For finding a builder I'd recommend the OP looks here: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1599295#1599295

Hi FMT

Did I ever mention anything about techy's let alone their competency to deliver!

The fee's charged may seem a bit pricey at times but look at the peace of mind this gives. As mentioned before, the day to day disruptions to people's normal day would be enough to contend with, add on any problems with the work and you'll end up with domestic hell and one partner looking to blame the other for not following some sound advice!!


I bet a man of your experience knows of a few sorry stories which should steer domestic newbies such as J177 away from managing their own work?

Regards

alittlerespect said:

Did I ever mention anything about techy's let alone their competency to deliver!

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Your posts suggest Architects are the only ones up to the job? Employing a fully fledged Architects practice is no guarantee whatsoever that the job will run smoothly. A good set of drawings that forms a tight contract and a decent builder who cares about his reputation is far more important than having an Architect run it on site. There is little justification for a visit every week or so from an Architect to inspect the works if the drawings and builder are good.

freddymercurystwin said:

alittlerespect said:

Did I ever mention anything about techy's let alone their competency to deliver!

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Your posts suggest Architects are the only ones up to the job? Employing a fully fledged Architects practice is no guarantee whatsoever that the job will run smoothly. A good set of drawings that forms a tight contract and a decent builder who cares about his reputation is far more important than having an Architect run it on site. There is little justification for a visit every week or so from an Architect to inspect the works if the drawings and builder are good.

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Hear Hear FMT. a simple extension, doesn't need to be project managed by any Architectural Technician companies at all. The householder himself , even though working, can usually project manage such a small job.
I'd leave Project Management to the big boys,(whole sites, refurbishment projects on estates etc)

hi just going through the process at the moment,my builder did the drawings very basic as its only a side extention 2 storey and porch basically copied a extention thats just been done so we knew it would be acceptable to planning then i went down to the council and submitted them,they were very helpful they spotted a few things a miss and the woman there helped me put it right.the whole process took 8 weeks to pass.But if your plans are complicated then make sure you get a good architect or technician who knows what is going to be acceptable other wise you could be messing around for ages

Mrs 177, Sorry to hear about your illness, hope you are now back to fine fettle.
Mrs, I am a grumpy old b*gger, who has been in this industry man and boy for 56 years and despite my families protests still sticking me beak in to every thing going on.
Believe me, when I say that young Freddy boy has given you the best advice that any one could possibly give you. Follow Freddie's advice to the letter and use a bit of common sense and you should have no major problems.
Forget about chartered architects charging a shed load of money for 42 drawings that you throw 40 away. Forget about architects doing a site visit for possibly £300.00 a throw to look down a hole that the BCO and 22 seagulls have already had a look in. Forget about design and build. unless you have got a couple of sack fulls of money that you are bored with counting.
The one and most important thing is finding a builder, and unless you find the right one, then you might just as well go and book your self into the local nut house right now.
It is very easy to find a good builder and if you do go down the route, come back and we will tell you how to find a good un
One other thing in passing Mrs, we have always tried to be a fair family company, and many has been the time I have sat in a prospective clients house with a quote in my hand, and have said, in my honest opinion your house does not justify this amount spent on it, and they have said, we wish to stop here for the next 30 years and don ’t care how much we spend. Can’t argue with that, can yer.
Wish you and your man every success.
old un.

Couldn't agree more with our older friend. There are so many professional hangers on in the building industry, that charge you an arm and a leg, and they don't even get their hands dirty. It all comes down to the builders/workers in the end.

Well, it is certainly going to take me a while to absorb all the comments, but can I say a big THANK YOU for all of the replies so far! It is certainly quite a daunting prospect for newbies like us, especially after the stress we've just been through, but I will have a good read through all of the suggestions and see where we go from there.
Can you believe after all these months [years?] of drawing it out, I suddenly came up with a different way of doing it about 10 minutes ago, agghh!! It means a smaller extension, and none of the hassle we would have had with stair moving, so hopefully a far cheaper option [famous last words ha ha]. Back to the drawing board for now I guess!
But I will definitely have a good read on here, thanks again all, lots of really helpful advice.

Thank you theoldun, I was one of the lucky ones, and my consultant told me I should be ok now until it's time for my telegram [fingers crossed]

I would agree that professional design and management would be your best option. Architects are expensive though and my experience is that they don't tend to want to be involved in the management of domestic projects, so you should check that out. A technician is a good option for smaller jobs as long as they carry PI insurance, which many do not.

For your size of job I would say the best option overall is a chartered surveyor that is experienced in design and project management. The fees will be reasonable compared to an architect, most will happliy project manage, most are a more practical than architects and all will have good PI insurance.

Whatever you do don't go to a builder. Not because all builders are bad, which they're not, but for the same reason you wouldn't go to a surveyor or architect to build your extension for you.