Gas Meter Size ??

Does anyone else find Agile more irritating than informative!

Half the information.......everyone else seemed to manage

sturharv, I would seriously consider a thermal storage system. The store is a buffer reserve of heat to use a peak times. The state of the existing boiler you don't say. Assuming all is OK with it, thermal storage/heat buffering is the most cost effective approach to look at

Calculate a store that holds 65kW of heat plus 50% more then add on top of this DHW needs, then that is approx your size for normal system - to be sure you could go well over 100%, so 130kW or more of CH heat stored. Remember the store and boiler will be working together to heat the place. In less than 100% peak times the store will be topped up by the boiler and both working when at full demand. In the morning a full cylinder may dump half or less of its heat into the rads super quick bringing the house up to temp, and the boiler kicks into re-heat at full temp. At peak demand times (when -1C outside), the boiler will be working flat out to cope, but the heat buffer will smooth it out, always having that reserve of heat to draw off.

Take the CH circuits off the store cylinder. You have to zone the CH in a house that big anyhow and take the two or more CH zones directly off the store. Then TRVs can be fitted on all rads using an Alpha or Smart pump and no unrepresentative nuisance wall stats.
 
Sponsored Links
Thanks Doctor Drivel.

Yes I think thermal storage is the way to go with this one.
 
In any case if the existing 50 kW boiler is not condensing then a replacement would produce at least 15% more heat from the same gas input! 30% if its an old open flue boiler.

If the boiler is old and clunky calculating the output of it and what a modern state-of-the-art condenser outputs may bring it with the limits of U6 meter.

This may be an expensive undertaking as 65kW boilers are not cheap. If only running a boiler and no gas hobs, etc, a U6 will cope with 62kW input.

As the heating system and water system has to be extended and zoned, then keeping the existing boiler, if OK, and going thermal storage is an approach very well worth assessing, which may be far more cost affective and kill many birds with one stone in the DHW and heating side, not just in the boiler side.

The worst case is a boiler with a higher gas rating than a U6 meter and the cost of a new service pipe/U16 meter, etc. That is just to get the kWs, then the heating and water system has to be extended too.
 
Using a store of heat, a 9kW immersion can be installed to "assist" if need be and act as limited backup. It will clearly backup DHW, it may totally heat the store over the day and night and bring the house up to temp first thing am too - and of course struggle after the initial heat up, but better than no heat in the rads at all.
 
Sponsored Links
As usual this DH has not got anything useful to say. A house can suddenly need 30% more power if there is a f**king big extension built onto it you thick git!

Does anyone else find Agile more irritating than informative!

Half the information.......everyone else seemed to manage

No, Tony is exceptionally helpful, knowledgeable and invariably right.
At the top of the forum are 2 sections called, FAQ and “read this first”. It appears you did not bother to read either.
Chances are you will spend a lot of money on the wrong things as it seems you rather hear your own misconceptions shared than take advice from a pro.
 
Don't know what t w a t drivel is filling his head with :confused:

Listen to Agile, he's forgotten more than drivel will ever know.
 
bengasman said:
As usual this DH has not got anything useful to say. A house can suddenly need 30% more power if there is a f**king big extension built onto it you thick git!

Does anyone else find Agile more irritating than informative!

Half the information.......everyone else seemed to manage
No, Tony is exceptionally helpful, knowledgeable and invariably right.
Oh I really don't think so. Agile might know a lot about diagnosing gas boiler faults, but on other subjects he merely pretends to know things, and IMO being a charlatan is worse than being an idiot.

He's frequently judgmental of novice posters, jumps to irrelevant and irreverent conclusions about their personal circumstances and finances, and is incapable of answering a direct question.
 
Calculate a store that holds 65kW of heat

As you only rate me as 5/10 could I suggest you review your statement above?

It seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding of physics!

Tony

It is actually 65kW of energy, but heat is better for plumbers to understand. Will you give us the calcs to work it out, and cylinder size?

I'll help you along. Some basic for you, as you get confused with energy and power. Understand these basics first.

Power

The watt (W) is a unit of Power.

The kilowatt (kW) is simply 1,000 watts. A one-bar 1 kilowatt electric fire or ten 100 watt light bulbs will consume one kilowatt.

BTU/hr is a unit of Power

Energy

Energy is Power x Time.

You pay for energy not power. What you have to pay for is the product of power and time. This is obvious - the electric fire operating for three hours is going to cost three times a much as for one hour. Therefore the chargeable electricity 'unit' is the:

kilowatt-hour (kWh)

This is by tradition in the world of electricity metering just called a 'unit'. What you are paying for is energy, rather than power.


kWh is energy
Wh is energy


The BTU is a unit of Energy

The BTU is not power. Hence the division by time to get back to power. People often speak of say, a "60,000 BTU boiler" - when what they really mean is 60,000 BTU/hr.

One kWh (energy) is equivalent to 3,412 BTU (energy)
Note: One figure has a time factor and one does not.

A 60,000 BTU/hr (power) boiler is rated at approx 17.6 kW (power).
Note: The time factor figures are reversed for power.

Boilers and Car Engines

Although some people think of the watt (a unit of power) as an electrical unit, it's not restricted to electricity. Boilers, whether powered by natural gas, LPG or oil, and heat emitters (radiators) have power outputs quoted in watts or kilowatts. So do car engines nowadays.

In days gone by, boilers etc. were rated in British thermal units (BTU or formerly BThU) per hour (BThU/hr), which is power.

For the engine, horsepower was used, and:

One HP is 746W.

So a 75 kW engine is equivalent to near enough 100 HP.

Gas

That just leaves gas, which nowadays in the UK is charged in kWh (energy), just like electricity. There is a difference though in that the electricity meter measures kWh directly, whereas the gas meter records the volume of gas used in multiples of 100 cubic feet (or in cubic metres on newer ones). The calculation to get from volume to energy in kWh (energy) is shown on the gas bill.
The conversion factor is not constant since it involves the calorific value of the fuel, which varies from region to region.

Therm

Again, in the past, gas was charged for by yet another energy unit, the Therm. One therm is simply 100,000 BTU (energy), equivalent therefore to 29.31 kWh (energy).
 
Doctor Drivel said:
It is actually 65kW of energy, but heat is better for plumbers to understand. Will you give us the calcs to work it out, and cylinder size?
Once again you've exposed yourself as the utter fool that you are.

A Watt is a measure of power, not energy - it indicates the rate of expending energy.

You cannot "store" a Watt, or a kiloWatt, or a mile-per-hour, or a litre-per-minute, or indeed any other measurement of rate.

If you have stored energy in a heat store/bank, then a reasonable way to express the quantity would be in Joules.

FFS. :rolleyes:
 
It is actually 65kW of energy, but heat is better for plumbers to understand. Will you give us the calcs to work it out, and cylinder size?

But my mobile phone battery will give 65 kW of power*! So you apparently dont need a massive cylinder if you just want 65 kW of power!

Tony


* Thats in theory if you ignore the IR.
 
Softus said:
Once again you've exposed yourself as the utter fool that you are.

A Watt is a measure of power, not energy - it indicates the rate of expending energy.
Read my previous post. a kW/hr is ENERGY
I don't need to read anything prior to this latest mistake.

A kiloWatt (kW) is a unit of power.

A kiloWatt hour (kWh) is a unit of energy.

A kiloWatt per hour (kW/h), which is what you've just posted, is a unit of power per hour, which is about as meaningless and useless a unit as anyone could contrive.

If you want to continue this, then you're going to need one of these to make progress in either direction:

spade.jpg
 
A kiloWatt (kW) is a unit of power.

A kiloWatt hour (kWh) is a unit of energy.

A kiloWatt per hour (kW/h), which is what you've just posted, is a unit of power per hour,

Tosser, read my post. All there for you. You are confused as usual.

Energy and power you need to know. It will make you a more complete person.
 
I'd rather be a t****r than be wrong. You've managed to be both.

My only regret is not being able to see your face when you finally realise your mistake. If you ever do.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top