Are these the emperor's new clothes - thermodynamic panels

biz · 4 May 2010

Hi,
- 1st post - i have searched but can't find #any# reference to the following heating systems...

My apologies if this has been covered, redirection gratefully received...

I am renovating a 200 yr old house, removing all current CH and DHW from solid fuel rayburn and antiquated rads.

Like everyone else I am searching for the most beneficial long term solution - a house we hope to be in for many years. Air source heat pumps seemed to have potential but the noise nuisance has put me off but another system has become apparent, and I'd very much like any feedback.

Its Thermodynamic "solar" panels that I really dont fully understand, and worry that what seems too good to be true will prove to be exactly that...?

here's the link:

http://www.energie-solar.co.uk/index.html

The firm supplying in my area has some good feedback for reputation and workmanship, but I cant get over the "it seems too good to be true" bit....

your thoughts?

greemyamochop · 4 May 2010

Not really seen much of it but it still looks like it has a compressor that you were worries about in the air source noise factor

With air and ground source theyre very design specific where they can work efficiently so make sure you get more than one survey as your property is old and the u values are likely not to be in line with what you might need.

ajstoneservices · 4 May 2010

I've been in the solar game for some years now and I've not seen this system before. I want a lot more information before being able to say for certain but, I wouldn't buy it, their sales pitch that is

greemyamochop · 4 May 2010

well you know what they say about "if it seems too good to be true"!!!!

your age of property would probably rule you out of air or ground source so would think the same of this

most companies and professionals would advise spending the money on updated boiler and controls and insulating your property better as a more worthwhile spend

ajstoneservices · 4 May 2010

As above.

biz · 4 May 2010

The house is very inefficient - 18" stone walls, poor roof insulation, single glazed etc. The money saved on purchase is going straight into insulating+ dryling walls, loft insulation, and DG.

Hopefully Underfloor heating will be possible, the ceilings are high enough to some inches to the floor, and I was hoping to use solar or similar.

It would seem (in lieu of anyone else replying very differently...!) that an oil boiler is our only affordable option, with no mains gas and wood pellet boilers being phenomenally pricey.

Thanks for your thoughts, all welcome....

ianniann · 5 May 2010

Thermodynamic solar panels use the same principle as a heat pump. They extract their basic heat from solar heating, or just from the air, then pump that inside using the same principles as a heat pump. They are filled with a compressor fluid rather than water, but otherwise the panels themselves are quite similar to standard thermal solar panels. There is a small compressor that increases the fluid temperature and then the heat is transferred into a standard heating system or hot water cylinder. I have no idea what the cost model looks like, but I can assure there are plenty of people out there waiting to scam you

"Thermodynamic" is also used for a variety of unrelated renewable systems.

ajstoneservices · 5 May 2010

Pellet boiler are expensive so take a look at batch log boilers. Atmos, Attack Proffi, Vigas, Angus, need to be connected to a large buffer tank, not as easy as oil as you have to load the boiler. If you have access to decent hardwood logs, far cheaper to run than an oil boiler.

mickyg · 5 May 2010

its crafty marketing. it says "Solar Panels providing hot water & central heating, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year"

it doesn't say "Solar Panels providing all of your hot water & central heating requirements, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year"

Most modern solar panels have solar gain throughout the year its just in the colder cloudier days the gain is negligeble. I'm still yet to be made of aware of any solar installation that makes good "economical" sense, in terms of payback in an average domestic home.

greemyamochop · 5 May 2010

I think wood pellet boilers are the same to heat per KW as oil boilers so the increased price wont be saving you any money for a while

Depends if you want to lower your carbon footprint or save ££££s really

Might learned solar friend here sounds more qualified than me on that subject but I think in Britain the payback time on solar rules out that as a money saver??

Air and ground source work on a different principle, instead of heating your house they literally make up the heat loss (im not good at explaining stuff sorry) so on anything other than a new build or upgrade to current best practice insulation itll cost you a fortune in electric

I had a similar aged cottage and done what you said except i had mains gas, the dry lining, new windows and underfloor made a huge price difference in my gas bill, not so sure if i had to pay someone else how long the cost would take to repay itself though.

Good luck anyway, let me know if you have any trouble!!

ajstoneservices · 5 May 2010

Solar can be worth while as long as you don't over pay for what is a relatively simple technology. A decent system can be had for a few thousand but you can be robbed for a lot more if you fall prey to the sharks.

With the RHI being introduce next year solar thermal will be a solid investment. http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/rhi/rhi.aspx

greemyamochop · 5 May 2010

Told you he was!!!

ianniann · 5 May 2010

With the RHI being introduce next year solar thermal will be a solid investment.

I'm looking forward to it nearly as much as that hole in my head I got last year. All our bills will go up because we're being forced to pay inflated prices for the least cost effective renewable technologies

Solar photovoltaic in particular offers a phenomenally high feed in tariff.

biz · 5 May 2010

Great replies - thanks,

I think i need to re-read all the above after some sleep!

I'd like to reduce co2, but the reality is monthly bills, so will keep thinking. Ref. the replies re: rhi, are we saying it's gonna add significantly to my reasons for choosing pv solar? I guess there might be no money left though, as i need to buy a primary system first....

ajstoneservices · 5 May 2010

ianniann said:
With the RHI being introduce next year solar thermal will be a solid investment.

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to it nearly as much as that hole in my head I got last year. All our bills will go up because we're being forced to pay inflated prices for the least cost effective renewable technologies Solar photovoltaic in particular offers a phenomenally high feed in tariff.

You may not like, it many don't. You could sit at home spitting at the nieghbours with it or, join the club because it's here to stay

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Are these the emperor's new clothes - thermodynamic panels

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