crabtree loadstar 3 phase , are all sparks so crap?

[mattysupra]

hi all. Im now looking for my 4th sparky to finish of installing my 3 phase ramp! I wish i had just done it myself!

Anyway does anyone know which way around the mcb goes into the 3 phase loadstar board? There are other breakers already in place but the latest spark is telling me they are in upside down. However i have now lost faith in this spark today after looking at his earth bonding etc.

 

[hairyben]

The orientation on most (all?) units will be "outboard" for on., towards the centre for off.

I saw a 3ph pro-tek in a hotel recently that the "electrician" had fitted all the MCB's back to front then scribbled in pencil over the labels on the cover which showed the proper on/off. Odd thing is, he had to have realised his error because he fitted a couple of RCBO's which only worked or fitted th right way round, so what he was trying to achieve gawd only knows.

 

[333rocky333]

Most Mcb's when standing upright have the output from the top, on a 3 phase board, visualise a board on its side,
The left side will obviously be the opposite way round to the right side.

 

[mattysupra]

thats the way this board is wired at the moment. But the spark seems to think they should be the other way around so they will 'clip' onto the back plate, however he spent a few minutes trying to get the 'clips' to clip on but we was running out of time so he spun it around the same as the others and it held in place when he did the screws up on the buzz bar.

After he finished we flicked the breaker on but it would not turn on! He seems to think its because its the wrong way around but i think its a faulty breaker myself. (plus the other 10 breakers are this way around) We ran out of time tho before the area with the fuse board had to be locked up so he said he will be back next friday!

 

[333rocky333]

I saw a 3ph pro-tek in a hotel recently that the "electrician" had fitted all the MCB's back to front

Some older 3 phase boards, you were meant to fit the Mcb with the release clip going in where the busbar was, this give you the impression they were the wrong way round, so a lot of people fitted them the other way ,like you say you do not realise this was wrong till you fitted an Rcd and noticed it switched the opposite way.

On these 3 phase boards the release clip don't function, the breaker uses one lip of the rail and when slid in the terminal screw holds it in place

 

[hairyben]

thats the way this board is wired at the moment. But the spark seems to think they should be the other way around so they will 'clip' onto the back plate, however he spent a few minutes trying to get the 'clips' to clip on but we was running out of time so he spun it around the same as the others and it held in place when he did the screws up on the buzz bar.

After he finished we flicked the breaker on but it would not turn on! He seems to think its because its the wrong way around but i think its a faulty breaker myself. (plus the other 10 breakers are this way around) We ran out of time tho before the area with the fuse board had to be locked up so he said he will be back next friday!

Are you sure he's a real electrician?

Most MCB's come with a "hook" and a "clip" for attaching to din-rail, but many boards don't use the clip- they just have the "top" part of the din rail for the hook then the mcb clamps onto the busbar which provides mechanical stability.

 

[hairyben]

I saw a 3ph pro-tek in a hotel recently that the "electrician" had fitted all the MCB's back to front

Some older 3 phase boards, you were meant to fit the Mcb with the release clip going in where the busbar was, this give you the impression they were the wrong way round, so a lot of people fitted them the other way ,like you say you do not realise this was wrong till you fitted an Rcd and noticed it switched the opposite way.

so do most new ones have the same arrangement. I don't understand the confusion, the MCB is still fed from the same end, why should the clip need to be accessible when there's no full din rail?

 

[mattysupra]

Are you sure he's a real electrican?

I dont think there are any around birmingham! I cant belive its been almost 3 weeks and 3 different sparks so far to get to the point of connecting to the fuse board. And i ran the cable and secured it also!

While we are on the subject, its 4mm armoured. Now should the earth wire from the armored gland be 4mm also? Because i have 2.5 single in the isolator box. I would of thought it should of been the same size cable?

 

[333rocky333]

Don't see it so much now, not sure what loadstar looks like.
Hager Mt range mainly I think.

At first it looks like the clip will jam in the bar and you think You will not be able to get to the clip to get the mcb off if needed.
But like you say it dont need to be accessible as it's not used.

The older mcb's used to have metal tags and it was scary sliding them in if the board was live, so we used to remove the clip totally as it was not needed.
They were made with the clip as you needed it on the single phase boards proberly.

Did you notice whether the release clip was at the top or bottom of the mcb

 

[RF Lighting]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

whats the chances of this thead coming up today.

Just seen some pics of a new installation in a well known local convenience store:

Oh, by the way, the RCBOs are correct. The MCBs are NOT.

are all sparks so rubbish?

It would seem an alarming amount of 'sparks' doing commercial work are infact rubbish.

And you thought it was just 5 day wonder DIs causing trouble

 

[hairyben]

Oh, by the way, the RCBOs are correct. The MCBs are NOT.

Thats the complete headbanger isn't it? You think the RCBO's only fitting one way would prompt anyone with two brains cells banging together into realising the MCB's are wrong?

 

[Pensdown]

Talk about confusing....even the circuit numbers are ar$e-about-face.

 

[mattysupra]

RF, you seem to have a picture of everything LOL. Anyway thats the same board and it is wired correct at the moment then looking at your picture (the mcb's are the other way around to your pic) . So the new spark today would of installed the incorrect way if i had not stuck my nose in and pushed him along on time and argued that the others i belive was correct etc.

Now this earthing, should the earth wire be the same size as the wire being used to power the ramp. I.e 4mm armored and 4mm earth in the fuse box and the isolator? As my other spark has used 2.5mm and i cant see this being correct?

 

[sparkyspike]

Has one of the cores been used as an earth?

 

[Pensdown]

Generally a 2.5mm earth cable with a 4mm supply cable will be fine.

When the job is finished by whoever, make sure you get your hands on a test certificate. This will confirm if the earth is suitable.