Israel..wouldn't we do the same?

[ellal]

Beg your pardon! your question was answered. Because you refuse to accept it won't change anything will it.

Still side-stepping eh...

Oh well, you go start your animal droppings thread then - Not sure how many will join you (apart from skitzee2k)...

 

[ajrtd]

Dear Anthony,

38 Degrees members have decided: Israel's attack on activists aboard ships taking aid to Gaza needs a response. Yesterday over 90% of us said we should come together to demand David Cameron and Nick Clegg act to ensure a proper international response. [1]

Now, we're launching an emergency petition to tell the government to get a thorough international investigation into the attack and an immediate end to the Gaza blockade, which has already stopped vital supplies reaching people in Gaza for years.

If tens of thousands of us sign up today, we'll push this new government to prove they mean business on international human rights.

Sign the petition, then tell your friends:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/gaza-aid-attack

In moments of crisis like this, governments sometimes make the headlines with grand statements but fail to follow up with real action. Then the media frenzy fades and the issue is quietly dropped. We need to come together in our thousands to make it clear that can't happen this time.

Already it looks like Israel might get away with attacking aid ships in international waters. The UN has failed to call for an independent international inquiry, calling instead for a vague "impartial investigation". That's not good enough. We need an independent investigation to get to the bottom of what happened on those boats. And we need the UK government to do all it can to lift the blockade before the situation in Gaza gets even worse.

We'll deliver the petition to Downing Street once we hit 50,000 names. Please help build the pressure by signing now:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/gaza-aid-attack

Here's what some 38 Degrees members said in yesterday's poll:
Ian: "Absoutely we should! If Israel was in any way justified in its actions, that should be found via international inquiry anyway. Secret diplomacy is no way for this to be allowed to progress."

Nida:"Yes, the siege is inhumane and completely unnecessary. It must be lifted."

Jeanne: "Its definitely important to get a strong commitment from this new coalition to show us where it stands on this awful prolonged conflict. Israel can't continue with this blockade."

Please sign the petition to call for justice for Gazans and the activists killed in the boat attacks:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/gaza-aid-attack

Thanks for being involved,

David, Hannah, Johnny, Nina and the 38 Degrees Team

NOTES:
[1] Poll results:
Yes = 94.89%
No = 5.6.2%
Dont know = 0.97%

ellal care to sign the above

 

[skitzee2k]

"no protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. " What protected people have been punished?

Gaza is not recognised by Israel as a state, or part of a state (oh the irony..)...therefore by definition it is a 'protected area' under the rules of war. Hence why the laws of the GC apply...

It is also the case that if you are a soldier you need to wear a uniform, any incident where you dress as a civilian is illegal, and you lose your rights. You become an unlaw combatant and under direct domestic law of the other party..in this case Israel..

So are you suggesting that the civilians on the ships were actually soldiers without a uniform?

Again, how were that punishing protected people?

I am saying that it is illegal to attack soldiers if you are not a soldier yourself. Rules of war.
Doesn't matter if they were civilians attacking soldiers or soldiers dressed as civilians attacking soldiers. As soon as they started attacking they are unlawful and can be arrested, not as prisoners of war, but as common criminals.

 

[JMLanders]

I don't know what all the fuss is about - the whole incident is about fighting Nazi forces anyway according to the Israeli Ambassador to the US

Nice to see Israel avoiding the temptation to rake up the past

 

[ajrtd]

Beg your pardon! your question was answered. Because you refuse to accept it won't change anything will it.

Still side-stepping eh...

Oh well, you go start your animal droppings thread then - Not sure how many will join you (apart from skitzee2k)...

I'll wait for you to start it when you're finished with the flag burning

 

[ellal]

I have also said that neither of them smell of roses, but I have made it very clear where my sympathies lie....and it isn't with the state that voted in a known terrorist organisation that glorifies in the death of children who committed the little known crime of getting on a bus.

Let's be clear, when we hear of people killed in actions like this, we sympathise, when the towers went down, they were cheering in the street.
Where do YOUR sympathies lie? With hamas?

My sympathy's lie with innocent people on both sides...In this case the innocents were killed by Israeli state terrorism!

I have condemned in the past suicide bombings and military aggression in equal measure..

Those like you who fall in with one side or the other through dogma are perpetuating the situation!

If Hamas were to start blowing up buses again, then I'd condemn them too when/if it happens...

Unfortunately, Israel has been the main aggressor for several years now, and that's why I condemn them!

 

[skitzee2k]

LOL!!!

calling instead for a[n]... "impartial investigation". That's not good enough. We need an independent investigation

And these people expect to be taken seriously??

"What do you mean that is 50p? a second a go you said it was half a pound!!!"

 

[ajrtd]

I don't know what all the fuss is about - the whole incident is about fighting Nazi forces anyway according to the Israeli Ambassador to the US

Nice to see Israel avoiding the temptation to rake up the past

They may have to use case law that goes back a lot further.

 

[JMLanders]

They may have to use case law that goes back a lot further.

Where's Rumpole when you need him?

 

[ajrtd]

They may have to use case law that goes back a lot further.

Where's Rumpole when you need him?

You'll have to dig him up

 

[JohnD]

...I have made it very clear where my sympathies lie....and it isn't with the state that voted in a known terrorist organisation that glorifies in the death of children who committed the little known crime of getting on a bus.

Do your sympathies lie with a state that uses artillery to shell families picnicking on a beach?

Or with a state that shoots an unarmed Aid worker in a building that contains only UN staff?

Or that shoots an unarmed aid worker attempting to evacuate children in a refugee camp?

How about a state that makes a “coordinated artillery and air attack” on a UN observer post?

 

[skitzee2k]

I have also said that neither of them smell of roses, but I have made it very clear where my sympathies lie....and it isn't with the state that voted in a known terrorist organisation that glorifies in the death of children who committed the little known crime of getting on a bus.

Let's be clear, when we hear of people killed in actions like this, we sympathise, when the towers went down, they were cheering in the street.
Where do YOUR sympathies lie? With hamas?

My sympathy's lie with innocent people on both sides...In this case the innocents were killed by Israeli state terrorism!

I have condemned in the past suicide bombings and military aggression in equal measure..

Those like you who fall in with one side or the other through dogma are perpetuating the situation!

It takes a very active immagination to reach a conclusion that they are innocent after seeing video footage of these 'innocents' going ape **** with polls, wooden beams, fists and throws aimed at the landing soldiers.

You have made up your mind about this and video proof will obviously not sway you.

...(Inside ellal's mind.... Open scene, The Free Gaza ships are travelling peacefully on the open seas with the pleasant breeze taking the heat off the day, over to the left children are dancing around maypoles and singing merrily. Then suddenly the clouds close in, the sea becomes choppy and a distant thunder clap brings events to a stand still.
Suddenly out of the clouds the jews descend, shooting the innocents who minutes before had been enjoying the view.
One frightened sailor tries handing one of the jewss his lucky lead pipe to appease him but the soldier runs into in repeatedly and falls 30ft to the deck.

"Aha" shouts the lead jew and looks for the soldiers who have all, being peaceful, have sat down on the deck. As he finds them, he shoots ten of them, just for the fun!")

^^^ That, ellal, is not real. Watch the tapes.

 

[ellal]

I am saying that it is illegal to attack soldiers if you are not a soldier yourself. Rules of war.
Doesn't matter if they were civilians attacking soldiers or soldiers dressed as civilians attacking soldiers. As soon as they started attacking they are unlawful and can be arrested, not as prisoners of war, but as common criminals.

Where is it illegal? - show me!

Oh sorry, I forgot you're the type of person who will stand aside just before they shoot you because it's (according to you) 'illegal' to do anything to defend yourself...

But hang on, isn't that the argument the Israeli's have used?...

At least try and be consistent...

 

[ellal]

...(Inside ellal's mind....

...(Inside skitzee2k's mind... Oops, nothing in there except blinkers and bigoted opinions/remarks...

(you're the one who has suddenly brought up 'jews'...I have always said Israel/Israeli's... )

 

[securespark]

The Israelis did not board with the intention of killing people did they?

Did they? I don't know, do you?

or did they open fire once it became clear they were likely to be killed.

Likely to be killed?

if the blockade is legal the crew and passengers were legally obliged to comply with orders given them by Israel.

IF. But what has that to do with them boarding the boat in international waters?