Condensers have had it! Well, According to the DM they have!

[malshep]

I'm not a tradesman but the regulations seem clear:

Do you have to have a condensing boiler?
No. You should have a condensing boiler fitted if it is reasonable to do so
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/BuildingRegulations/DG_10030520

So what I don't understand is, if a new kitchen has to be demolished to fit a condensate pipe to an appropriate indoor waste, then why don't you (the installer) exercise your right to stipulate that the condensing requirement is "unreasonable" and fit a non-condensing type. Unless there is an inspector involved, I can't see that you have to justify your decision to anyone other than the customer.

 

[Tibbot]

So what I don't understand is, if a new kitchen has to be demolished to fit a condensate pipe to an appropriate indoor waste, then why don't you (the installer) exercise your right to stipulate that the condensing requirement is "unreasonable" and fit a non-condensing type.

The installer doesn't have a 'right'. The 'unreasonable' is determined by a points system. In the situation you describe the installer will next be required to look at externally run options, which brings us back to square one.

 

[silverback18]

I do whatever I think necessary to prevent freezing

Your customers must be very understanding to allow you the luxury of a blank cheque when it comes to installing their drain lines.

My customers want a trouble free installation and that is what I give them, all my work is by recomendation, I do not advertise.

 

[lawrance]

I do whatever I think necessary to prevent freezing

Your customers must be very understanding to allow you the luxury of a blank cheque when it comes to installing their drain lines.

My customers want a trouble free installation and that is what I give them, all my work is by recomendation, I do not advertise.

Always the blaggers! Someone change the record

 

[Tibbot]

My customers want a trouble free installation and that is what I give them, all my work is by recomendation, I do not advertise.

All customers want that. But you're suggesting that you do 'whatever it takes', so does that mean, (like another poster's example), Your customers would allow you to demolish a kitchen to run your line internally? Or you've never had to install a boiler on a different floor on the opposite side of a building to the stack with doorways, staircases tiled, laminate or stone floors in the way?

 

[nogoodatfaultfinding]

topics a bit of a joke really as i have seen in the last 2 weeks both external and internal FROZEN SOLID 4" stacks so what do we do then start runing condensate in 4" in the hope it does not freeze????

 

[silverback18]

Look, you do as you want with your installs and you choose your customers, if you want to run 22mm plastic pipe externally so it freezes, go ahead, no skin off my nose, I am simply pointing out to the public who read these forums that there is always a solution, you do not have to put up with your boiler stopping working as soon as the temperature gets cold, yes it may cost a bit more, but certainally not as much as the boiler repairs, call outs to plumbers to defrost the line and the inconvinience of being bloody cold

 

[silverback18]

topics a bit of a joke really as i have seen in the last 2 weeks both external and internal FROZEN SOLID 4" stacks so what do we do then start runing condensate in 4" in the hope it does not freeze????

You have seen an internal 4" soil stack frozen solid, don't make me laugh, that would not happen, if the stack is internal it is within the thermal envelope of the building, I don't believe you, are you saying that the inside of the house was minus 10, which it would need be to freeze straight away with the flush of a toilet, or the discharge of a bath

 

[doitall]

topics a bit of a joke really as i have seen in the last 2 weeks both external and internal FROZEN SOLID 4" stacks so what do we do then start runing condensate in 4" in the hope it does not freeze????

You have seen an internal 4" soil stack frozen solid, don't make me laugh, that would not happen, if the stack is internal it is within the thermal envelope of the building, I don't believe you, are you saying that the inside of the house was minus 10, which is the minimum it would need to freeze straight away with the flush of a toilet, or the discharge of a bath

I doubt a 4" soil pipe would freeze outside, unless there was a problem or blockage at the bottom.

 

[silverback18]

I do whatever I think necessary to prevent freezing

Your customers must be very understanding to allow you the luxury of a blank cheque when it comes to installing their drain lines.

My customers want a trouble free installation and that is what I give them, all my work is by recomendation, I do not advertise.

Always the blaggers! Someone change the record

Why does providing a full and good service to your customer make you a blagger

 

[silverback18]

topics a bit of a joke really as i have seen in the last 2 weeks both external and internal FROZEN SOLID 4" stacks so what do we do then start runing condensate in 4" in the hope it does not freeze????

You have seen an internal 4" soil stack frozen solid, don't make me laugh, that would not happen, if the stack is internal it is within the thermal envelope of the building, I don't believe you, are you saying that the inside of the house was minus 10, which is the minimum it would need to freeze straight away with the flush of a toilet, or the discharge of a bath

I doubt a 4" soil pipe would freeze outside, unless there was a problem or blockage at the bottom.

I agree, I have never seen a frozen soil stack in my 27 years as an installer, unless as you say it is blocked, it would not happen

 

[Tibbot]

Look, you do as you want with your installs and you choose your customers, if you want to run 22mm plastic pipe externally so it freezes, go ahead

I have not suggested incorrectly installing in this way. Only that I find your claim that you succeed, in all cases, at finding an internal route at your customer's willing and unlimited expense difficult to believe.

 

[doitall]

Problem is Silverback18, your clients like ourselves are that bit more upmarket, only a small few better installers get in with the in crowd.

As you rightly say they want a quality job that works, and cost is a secondary consideration. You fit a Ravenheap in there £5mill house and they'll drop you in the blink of an eye.

 

[silverback18]

Look, you do as you want with your installs and you choose your customers, if you want to run 22mm plastic pipe externally so it freezes, go ahead

I have not suggested incorrectly installing in this way. Only that I find your claim that you succeed, in all cases, at finding an internal route at your customer's willing and unlimited expense difficult to believe.

Using larger pipes is not expensive, having a bit of an awkward run to take the route internally is not that expensive, if required insulating the pipe with trace heating is not that expensive.

 

[Tibbot]

Using larger pipes is not expensive, having a bit of an awkward run to take the route internally is not that expensive, if required insulating the pipe with trace heating is not that expensive.

I totally agree with using larger pipes & insulation externally and with awkward internal runs.

I disagree with unfeasible or impossible internal runs.

As for trace heating. I'd be f***** if I'll introduce another needless piece of sh*t to breakdown into the deal. Rather let someone else have the job.