Condensers have had it! Well, According to the DM they have!

[silverback18]

Using larger pipes is not expensive, having a bit of an awkward run to take the route internally is not that expensive, if required insulating the pipe with trace heating is not that expensive.

I totally agree with using larger pipes & insulation externally and with awkward internal runs.

I disagree with unfeasible or impossible internal runs.

As for trace heating. I'd be f***** if I'll introduce another needless piece of sh*t to breakdown into the deal. Rather let someone else have the job.

How can it be needless if it prevents the condense from freezing and stopping the boiler from working, leaving the customer cold in these extreme conditions, so you would rather the boiler breakdown, rather then add something that could prevent this.
If I find a route internally, it would not be impossible and if it saves on insulating the pipe, or using trace heating and preventing the condense from freezing then it is not unfeasible.

 

[Tibbot]

Told you, wouldn't want the job. Only quote if condensate can be terminated by 'natural' means with little or no chance of blocking, freezing or other failure. Same reason for not doing condensate pumps either.

 

[namsag]

Very easy for a 4 inch stack to freeze overnight with dripping taps leaky internal overflows .

Its not a question of cost you say to someone the only way i can get to a drain is to run this pipe outside its a struggle to get them to accept 32mmm let alone 40mm then you turn round and say i am going to make it a couple of inches bigger by lagging it so you dont freeze and they just dont want it.

Anyone who says they have never had to run a condensate pipe outside either doesnt do a lot of installs/ or is the luckiest feker born

 

[silverback18]

Very easy for a 4 inch stack to freeze overnight with dripping taps leaky internal overflows .

Its not a question of cost you say to someone the only way i can get to a drain is to run this pipe outside its a struggle to get them to accept 32mmm let alone 40mm then you turn round and say i am going to make it a couple of inches bigger by lagging it so you dont freeze and they just dont want it.

Anyone who says they have never had to run a condensate pipe outside either doesnt do a lot of installs/ or is the luckiest feker born

I think you will find with the attention it has received this year from the media, your customers will be happy to accept whatever it takes so they don't have a boiler breakdown in this cold waether due to frozen condense pipes.
it depends on the house, as doitall rightly pointed out I work in the higher end of the market, so it is easier to make tham see sense, also easire to find routes internally.

 

[silverback18]

Problem is Silverback18, your clients like ourselves are that bit more upmarket, only a small few better installers get in with the in crowd.

As you rightly say they want a quality job that works, and cost is a secondary consideration. You fit a Ravenheap in there £5mill house and they'll drop you in the blink of an eye.

Yes, you are correct

 

[Tibbot]

If I find a route internally, it would not be impossible and if it saves on insulating the pipe, or using trace heating and preventing the condense from freezing then it is not unfeasible.

It's unfeasible or impossible if the boiler has to be sited where you can't reach an internal drain due to finished rooms, hallways, staicases, doorways, hard floors etc etc.... The only alternative is an external route with adequately or oversized, insulated pipe. If that still freezes then the MI's or building code need re-writing.

 

[silverback18]

If I find a route internally, it would not be impossible and if it saves on insulating the pipe, or using trace heating and preventing the condense from freezing then it is not unfeasible.

It's unfeasible or impossible if the boiler has to be sited where you can't reach an internal drain due to finished rooms, hallways, staicases, doorways, hard floors etc etc.... The only alternative is an external route with adequately or oversized, insulated pipe. If that still freezes then the MI's or building code need re-writing.

Your not reading what I write, if I find a route to run it internally, then I will, that means its not impossible, if it has to run externally I will ensure it is for as short a run as possible, I will use 40mm pipe, 50mm if I feel it is needed and if very exposed I will use closed cell insulation with trace heating.

 

[Tibbot]

Problem is Silverback18, your clients like ourselves are that bit more upmarket, only a small few better installers get in with the in crowd.

As you rightly say they want a quality job that works, and cost is a secondary consideration.

Complete b*llo**s. This is heating we're talking not nail bars.

 

[Tibbot]

Your not reading what I write, if I find a route to run it internally, then I will, that means its not impossible, if it has to run externally I will ensure it is for as short a run as possible, I will use 40mm pipe, 50mm if I feel it is needed and if very exposed I will use closed cell insulation with trace heating.

Very good, I'm sure most do too. Except the trace heating for me of course. Having said that might consider it as a retro-fit for other peoples cock-ups.

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

what is got to do with rainwaters is
a rainwter is 2 1/2 inch, so if that can freeze, the recommended size of 1 1/4 will freeze more easily,
its not possible for always to run the condensate internally, and its perfectly ok to run then outside because the MI's say so,
so who knows best the MI's or you ?????

Me obviously, because if the manufacturers are saying that the condense can be run externally and they are freezing, then obviously it is NOT ok to run them externally, its not hard to work out, I think you will find that the German regulations forbid the condense to be run externally, why do you think that is?, we should learn from our European collegues.

Germans, don't you just love em

 

[namsag]

The germans seemingly only allow roof termination if its a standard house there was talk of that coming in here as well

 

[doitall]

Problem is Silverback18, your clients like ourselves are that bit more upmarket, only a small few better installers get in with the in crowd.

As you rightly say they want a quality job that works, and cost is a secondary consideration.

Complete b*llo**s. This is heating we're talking not nail bars.

Let me assure you Our clients wouldn't blink, if you wanted to add another few £K to run a new drain for the condensate.

To be fair most us Our installs were in dedicated plant rooms with everything in the same room, including a floor drain.

You have the working class, the middle class and the upper class, we Only ever work for the later, £50k plus jobs.

 

[Tibbot]

Let me assure you Our clients wouldn't blink, if you wanted to add another few £K to run a new drain for the condensate.

You have the working class, the middle class and the upper class, we Only ever work for the later, £50k plus jobs.

They might blink if you wanted to uproot their Smallbone kitchen to get a pipe across it.

In any case your perception of class misguided. '£50k plus jobs' are only £50k plus because the client is having more and bigger of the same products as your woking class. Your local knob will not look for a designer boiler, Cartier controls or gold plated UFH system for many times the price of any descent ones. That'll apply to bathrooms no doubt, but not heating.

 

[doitall]

So you think the owner of this house would be worried about a few extra quid for a 1st class job.

Incidentally the refurb was over £6mill.

View media item 29452

 

[Tibbot]

So you think the owner of this house would be worried about a few extra quid for a 1st class job.

Incidentally the refurb was over £6mill.

View media item 29452

I don't care if the refurb exceeded the national debt of Mexico, the heating system would only cost more than that of a studio flat because it's bigger and there's more of it.