Electric heating , central heating and domestic hot water.

[thatbloke]

What do you guys think? worth it? I know running costs might be higher than gas/oil (we dont have mains gas) and I know economy 7 storage heating is rubbish but with gas and oil becoming more expensive I am thinking long term , also the cottage has no heating what so ever at the moment so I have a blank canvas to work from.
Just wondering what a sparkys view on this would be.
Would the addition of solar panels make it an affordable way to heat a home?

 

[flameport]

Electric heating is a last resort option. It will cost far more than other fuels.

If gas prices go up, so will electricity - as a substantial amount of electricity is generated by burning gas.

Electric solar panels are a total crock, and once the ridiculous subsidies end, will be the most expensive option of all. Even with the subsidies, the economics are highly dubious.

Using solar panels to directly heat the water is a more likely option, although some other form of heating will always be required.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Combined electric heating & hot water is truly expensive to run.
You'll need soemthing like an ElectroMax system run of Economy 10 tariff (if you can get it)

Look also at ElectroMax Solar - you may get a grant for some of the cost 'cos its green

Hope you've got deep pockets

 

[thatbloke]

That Electromax is interesting , 9kwh boiler heater heats the central heating system.
So what does that work out as , around 90p an hour providing it is heating the water constantly?
I need to find out the hourly cost of running the lpg combi boiler I was going to use.
Anyone know how to do that? Its a 32 Kw potterton performa.

 

[flameport]

So what does that work out as , around 90p an hour providing it is heating the water constantly?.

Correct if you pay 10p per kWh for your electricity, which seems unlikely.

Even if it was, with heating on 10 hours a day for just 4 months of the year, that puts your electricity costs for heating alone at well over £1000 per year.

Also note that the electric boiler is 9kW, and the gas one you mention is 32kW.
Either the gas boiler is massively oversized, or that electric effort is a quarter of the size required to heat a building.

 

[ericmark]

You need to start with a heat store like shown here These cylinders come in two types vented and un-vented the vented do not require annual testing as not a pressure vessel so I would think best option.

These cylinders allow you to have various hot coils and immersion heaters so you can combine the heat from many sources to heat the water. The water is often very hot so for the domestic supply a mixer valve is used to reduce the temperature of the hot water at the taps.

The water can be pumped around like with any other wet central heating system but unlike the storage radiator once the circulating pump is stopped there is nearly no loss of heat so you don't have to guess how warm the next day will be.

The disadvantage is weight and size of the storage tank. Plus installation cost. But it is the only way to combine solar, wind, and mains electric into one system.

The Ulster people have a really neat way of using a standard cylinder to do this job look here Likely cheaper method as not using special cylinders. The problem is to stop the water mixing too much and you want to heat from top down rather than bottom up so hot water is available quickly. Other systems have baffles in the tank as seen here

but the solar syphon used by Willis seen here

is a far simpler idea to get same result. These Irish are claver people!

However finding a plumber in the main land who will install the system may be something else.

 

[flameport]

You need to start with a heat store like shown here

but not that one, since Gledhill products are the second worst contraptions ever designed. Saniflo being the first.

 

[Adam_151]

Electric solar panels are a total crock, and once the ridiculous subsidies end, will be the most expensive option of all. Even with the subsidies, the economics are highly dubious.

I used to think that, but I'm not so sure, obviously they'll be no good for trying to make up for the electric heating being discussed, unless you consider it from a POV of ofsetting the cost of teh heating against the feed in tarriff (but the unfairness of the FIT is aside from my point atm)

But lets say you had a household that embraced modern technology, and therefore you had a fair amount of your electricity consumption from a high base load from things like network switches, cable modems, media centre recorders, and maybe even a pc acting as a server. Would a pv system not have a use in covering a lot of these base load?... I don't know the answer, but its an interesting point to consider

 

[ajrobb]

Heating is only one factor in keeping a home comfortable. If you are starting with an old cottage you should be considering which parts are worth keeping and which can be modernised. For example, solid masonry walls will lose 9 times as much heat as modern walls built to minimum standards.

Electricity can be used to heat more cheaply than gas if used to run a heat pump.

If you can insulate the cottage to modern standards you have the option of underfloor heating. By eliminating the cold floor, the air temperature can be cooler for the same comfort. Underfloor heating is also a good companion to solar heating and ground-source heat pumps as heating water temperatures are much lower with underfloor heating.

If you can stand some fan noise, you can install air-to-air heat pumps relatively cheaply. This also gives you the option of air-conditioning in the summer - an ideal companion to a subsidised electric solar panel. Air-sourced heat pumps are most efficient in mild weather.

Given that regulations require 4 litre/s of fresh air per person, this can become significant in a well insulated house. A mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery can reduce heat lost with extracted stale air.

A lot of these systems are subsidised.

 

[thatbloke]

Thanks for all the info guys , I will look into it all in greater detail and have a think on it.
The cottage is like a tea bag, Its thatched but the walls are wattle and daub with a daub render on the outside. We will be putting on a new lime render at some point and possibly using sheeps wool to insulate although it wont be much. Single glazing at present and no insulation in the floors, but we will do what we can to make the place more efficient although it will never be performing as well as a modern house, and when I say modern I mean one built in the last 200 or so years or so.

 

[flameport]

and therefore you had a fair amount of your electricity consumption from a high base load from things like network switches, cable modems, media centre recorders, and maybe even a pc acting as a server. Would a pv system not have a use in covering a lot of these base load?... I don't know the answer, but its an interesting point to consider

It might, but it would be better to reduce the electrical load from such devices, by not leaving them on when not needed, configuring them to switch to a low power state when not in use, or purchasing devices which use electricity more efficiently.