please help me

[kevckev]

this might be better in the diy disaster section but im usually ok with wiring lights up
the problem/problems i have had today i cant see me ever trying to deal with electrics again

first up i wired a five bulb chandilier to an excisting ceiling rose and it switched on ok, as i have done this in two previos rooms with no problems i thought all was aok, until i went to switch it off at either of the two switches that control this chandilier and it wouldnt switch off at either so that was my first problem

i then separated allthe wires and removed them from their junction boxes-this i think was my worse move but feel free to laugh or help or both.

the ceiling rose area has three thick wires coming down from the ceiling two of these are grey the other one is white, each of these has a live nuutral and earth comming out of them so 9 wires in total 3earth 3 live 3 nuatral

my new problem came when i walked into the living room and switched the light on which has been working perfect until this but is now not working along with the dining room light which is also out.

i presume i have broken a circuit but have got no clue how to return it to its previous working order

any help would be much appreciated and would save me from a severe earbashing from my wife

thanks for even taking the time to read this

kev


ps the two previous chandiliers that i hung were controlled by only one switch
this problem chandilier is controlled by two switches
hope this helps with the help that is hopefully forthcoming
thanks again

 

[EFLImpudence]

TURN OFF THE POWER

Put all three earths - sleeved in green/yellow - in the earth terminal of the new light.

Next you have to connect all three red wires together but to nothing else.
If there are 4 connectors on your new light, use the spare one (not L,N or earth)
If there are only 3 use a separate connector.

Now you have to find which black wire goes to the switch. It should be marked with red sleeve but often this has not been done. If not do you have a test meter.?
Come back if you can't find it.
Put this black in the L terminal of the light.

Put the other 2 blacks in the N terminal of the light.

 

[Stoday]

You've gone wrong because you've assumed that the red wires are live and the black neutral. They are not.

To solve your problem, you'll have to understand how two-way switching circuits work. Click to read Wiki

Or you could get an electrician in to sort it.

Ignore EFLImpudence. His advice is wrong because he didn't read what you said about two switches operating your light.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ok.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

To solve your problem, you'll have to understand how two-way switching circuits work. Click to read Wiki

I agree that he really must understand that.

But how does it make a difference to dealing with the wiring at a light?

Ignore EFLImpudence. His advice is wrong because he didn't read what you said about two switches operating your light.

Err...

the ceiling rose area has three thick wires coming down from the ceiling two of these are grey the other one is white, each of these has a live nuutral and earth comming out of them so 9 wires in total 3earth 3 live 3 nuatral

So loop in, loop out, and switch?

How does a 2nd switch make a difference Stoday?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thanks. I did forget about 2 grey and 1 white.

So- treat brown wires as red
and blue wires as black

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks. I did forget about 2 grey and 1 white. So- treat brown wires as red and blue wires as black

Goodness, I hope the OP isn't getting as confused as me by these exchanges

Unless I've missed something, we don't even know that there are any brown or blue wires do we? (grey-sheathed could be red/black)

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the problem/problems i have had today i cant see me ever trying to deal with electrics again

That may be a trifle extreme.

Almost certainly all you need to do is to stop dealing with electrics until you understand it properly, not for ever.

im usually ok with wiring lights up

More by luck than judgement, I think...

i presume i have broken a circuit

Yes, you did that when you separated all the wires...

Nobody is born knowing anything about electrical installations - everybody has to learn, and there's no reason to believe that you're not capable of doing the same.

But learning is something you really should do, because carrying out electrical work without understanding it is a very bad idea. Following instructions to "put this wire in that hole" without knowing why, and without knowing how it works, is to be strongly discouraged.

• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+circuits+101
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/electricity.html
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
  
  
• http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:books
  
  
• http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics
  

 

[Stoday]

Ignore EFLImpudence. His advice is wrong because he didn't read what you said about two switches operating your light.

Err...

the ceiling rose area has three thick wires coming down from the ceiling two of these are grey the other one is white, each of these has a live nuutral and earth comming out of them so 9 wires in total 3earth 3 live 3 nuatral

So loop in, loop out, and switch?

Possibly, possibly not.

How does a 2nd switch make a difference Stoday?

That tells you it's a two way switch circuit.
Not all 2-way switches use a three core; in days of yore 2 strappers were used, linking L1-L1 and L2-L2. live feed to one common, switch wire from the other. Live looped from one switch to another, neutral from one rose to another. So strappers may loop through the ceiling rose. The OP may have no live at the rose. No one knows and the OP doesn't know enough to tell us what the configuration is.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ColJack]

take off the switches and tell us what wires / cables you have in each..

IF you have a white T+E at one then that's the switch wire at the ceiling rose.. ( which would be my guess since it would be odd for a sparky to switch cable sheath colours when doing the main wiring, but the switches could have been moved / altered at a later date.. )

 

[fireman22]

old electrician i knew wouldnt buy twin red for switch drops as it was more expensive, he would use grey 1mm for the mains in / out etc and white 1mm cable for the switch drops, so he could easlily find the switch wire at the light position

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The OP may have no live at the rose.

Would that be why another light on the circuit stopped working when all the reds were separated?

 

[sparkwright]

take off the switches and tell us what wires / cables you have in each..

IF you have a white T+E at one then that's the switch wire at the ceiling rose.. ( which would be my guess since it would be odd for a sparky to switch cable sheath colours when doing the main wiring, but the switches could have been moved / altered at a later date.. )

OR
A new light added perhaps for another room could have had it it's supply taken from here.

 

[kevckev]

You've gone wrong because you've assumed that the red wires are live and the black neutral. They are not.

To solve your problem, you'll have to understand how two-way switching circuits work. Click to read Wiki

Or you could get an electrician in to sort it.

Ignore EFLImpudence. His advice is wrong because he didn't read what you said about two switches operating your light.

you were right Stoday i did presume that the red wires were live and had to be linked together
ur were also right when u said i had to understand how two way switching works
i was stressed with it last night and couldnt take it in
came home today and wired it up and first time its done
thanks for ur help
and thanks to everyone else who replied and tried to solve my problem its good to know that people will help with others problems with no reward to themselves
the joys of the web
thanks again