Gas supply to new hob

[Mikefromlondon]

Gee what a really helpful post kirkgas, but please don't waste your valuable time again.

I simply want to know what type of pipe to lay, and when the time comes, I will use a properly qualified engineer to hook things up.

Useful answers appreciated, unhelpful not.

Hey man! I would personally ring NASA headquarters for the safest advice, don't play with safety, it is beyond your capability! you need highly skilled specially certified people to pop in to give you an advice how to lay a pipe that will be carrying gas to your future cooker!
You know it is a rocket science! so I would definitely call NASA scientists, and since they are 5 hours ahead of us, when you get home late you should still be able to catch them whilst they are still at work.

You don't need any advice, just your instinct and bear safety of heat from the underfloor heating, obviously keep the pipes as far away as you can and I would certainly not bring them any closer than about 6 inches from the nearest element strand, but even if you are not going to use the cooker as yet, lay your pipe in, but don't connect the feed end to gas until your cooker arrives, then get a Gas Safe Engineer (ideally from NASA) to connect your feed pipe to the gas supply, also make sure your hob must be plumbed in using the copper pipes all the way to the hob terminal, with an isolating valve and again it should be kept very close to the wall as many oven do not have sufficient depth behind to allow for isolating valves with larger handles.

Personally I would run the pipe in the floor using a small duct, which can be made out of timber or plastic trunkin and then the rest concreted over, but provide wooden supports to the pipe so that it is floating in the middle of the duct, and have the duct such that any ingress of water from any spillages can escape and not pool in.

Further more, remember to have any joints in the pipe run under the floor tested for any leaks before cementing over the duct or covering with tiles, as you won't be able to get to them once your tiles are laid, pressure test them for any leaks, how you can do this is quite easy, use manometer and some pressure and leave the pipe under test for a few hours and you should not loose any There should be atleast 1" thicj layer of cement over the duct cover carrying the gas pipe inside, on top of which you can lay your tiles.

And you can make a sophisticated home made manometer using a length of clear plastic tubing bend in a U shape (halfords sell some, or even B&Q) and stick it or glue it to a stiff board, and filled with water and leaving the upper ends open and one side connected to the pipe under test, and pump some air pressure in the pipe under test using some home made adaption, raise the manometer water level to about 6" of water in height, and mark it and leave it for a few hours and the level should not change wahtsoever, bearing in mind the temperature change in the room may cause small changes, so measure the level at the same temeperature.

By the way, its up to you if you trust NASA scientist, they did get it wrong on the Chellenger!

 

[Dan Robinson]

And what flux would you use then smarty pants?


*edit* damn tablet keyboard.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

And would you use them smarty pants?

Smarty pants! No absolutely not! because we don't use anything that we are not sure of.

But we can ask the professionals for their advice, hence why we ask here, if they are willing to share their skills and knowledge and guide us how to go about doing it the best way ourselves, or are they just going to tell us to seek a gas safe registered engineer!

And further more please don;'t tell us how much it cost you to train for a gas safety course, we don't doubt you worked hard for it, we are seeking one off advice, we are not here to take your work away, its a DIY forums and we all love doing most things ourselves, how did people achieve things with gas one time, most of Britain was lit with Gas before even the electricity was invented! how did they do it? there were no gas safe engineers then!

 

[Dan Robinson]

This is a plumbing and heating forum. Not a DIY gas forum.

During the time we had gas lighting, we also had no police force. I wonder how criminals were brought to justice?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

As for suitable flux, we could go on debating all night and still not reach any amicable solution.

Plumbers have been using acid based fluxes for more than half a century, we had gas central heating installed about 35 years ago, the installer used corrosive type flux, he may have been able to wipe clean the outside of the copper pipe witha wet rag, but how could he have cleaned inside?

So 35 years later my gas installation is still trouble free, and could possibly go on for another 50 years or so! but i am sure before that soneone else may be moving in my house and demolish the current layout and re do boiler at a different location.

So with modern advances in chemical technology, I am sure new and better fluxes are available, those which may be more suitable for use on Gas etc.and approved by gas board specifications.

So my point is why does it matter what flux you use? as long as the flux does not cause excessive corrosion, and makes a perfect water tight and gas tight joint and is not reactive to gas, and what is sold by most plumbers merchants, and what is mostly carried in plumbers tool boxes, i am sure that is the flux any plumber will use if asked to lay a pipe or two extra for carrying gas to kitchen appliances, most builders are plumbers as well as electricians, bricklayers, plasteres, they are multiskilled, so the answer is as far as I am concerned it woukd not really matter a great deal what flux you used,

but if I went one better, I would ask the plumbers merchant what is the best flux i can use for gas and water pipes, now that leaded solder is outlawed, so i am sure a different flux woukld be more suitable for unleaded solder with greater silver contents. It is the same as in electronics where all leaded solder is against the ROSH complaince.

So may be I will have to upgrade my tool box to Powerflo self cleaning flux water board approved or even better still use Fry Fluxite paste for use on gas work as approved by BG!

10 or 15 years ago this Fry flux paste probably did not exists, so what did you use?

so that makes all old installations dangerous and unfit does it?

by the way, most houses build in London during the early 1930s are still connected to the water mains with a leaded pipes up to the main stopcock

 

[Dan Robinson]

If only you knew how much you have demonstrated how little you know on the topic you are trying to be clever on.

Rocket science it certainly isn't. But boy - you should quit before you embarrass yourself too much.

*edit - you looked confused so corrected my typo's

 

[Mikefromlondon]

 

[Dan Robinson]

To help you - a little. Leaded solder is not outlawed.

Not sure what relevance the make up of London water mains are. And anyway - there is so much scale and other debris coated on the inside of the pipe that the water probably doesn't get near the drinking water.

It is 100% illegal for a tradesman (in your words):

if asked to lay a pipe or two extra for carrying gas to kitchen appliances

Multi-skilled tradesman do exist, but none of them can lay a pipe and have it carry gas.

It doesn't much matter what flux you use but there is more to it than that. The silver content of solder has absolutely pheck all to do with it.

But of course, it is not rocket science - so I am sure you know all this already.


By the way, Powerflow is the last flux I would use.

I repeat. You really should give up. Your knowledge is poor to say the least. Being a Wikiwarrior is just pathetic.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

OMG! how many bodges i had to put right carried out by pros, including one incident where Transco guy changed a gas meter and left the test nipple loose! allowing it to continually leak and build up raw gas in a celler where the meter was fitted! Good job the owner called me for my independent opinion before calling the pros to come and see their works of wonder! I was able to take pictures of that meter showing bubbles forming out from the leaked nipple, Oh as I am not a professional gas fitter I do not carry leak spray but ever reliable fairy liquid came to rescue and thus I was able to save the street from blowing nearly all the houses and think how many lives I saved that day!

Probably more than 100 lives! and I get no credit but reminders that what I did was completely and utterly illegal, I should not have touched that nipple as it was illegal to touch any gas equipment, but my natural instincts overcame unquestionable silly and rediculous law preventing me from tightening that nipple that could have cost over 100 lives!

What was I suppose to do? knock on all the adjoining houses and neighbours and tell them to evacuate the whole street? now surely I don't want to do a policeman's job that i can't do well, but tightening a screw is a child's play.

( Ofcourse i would naturally alert everyone and evacuate a whole street if necessary if I saw a potentially dangerous gas leak that could prove very fatal and life threatening, just plain and simple common sense really)

And you know what is funny! when the emergency team arrived with all their sniffing equipment to test for a gas leak, they couldn't find any! despite me telling them that the leak was due to the nipple being left loose, which I had subsequently tightened and so the leak has stopped now, but bthe guy ticked some boxes on his report and left saying No leaks werre found! so they made me look like a liar!!

But I was glad that I did not have to evacuate the neighbours for nothing as I was instructed to do so! a woman kept speaking like a robot stating "Open all windows and doors, do not switch on or off any lights or use any phones, and get all your neigbours evacuated into the street! This despite me telling her that all was now secured as far as the gas leak was concerned but I rang them to point btheir mistake so that they do not repeat that gain, but they insisted on sending an emergency team just in case, which I didn't object to, but having explained that there was no longer any leak and that I just phoned them to lodge the incident with them, but that real woman kept repeating safety instructions! I screamed at her and said do you not understand simple English! I said there is no further leak but she kept saying Evacuate the entire neighbourhood!

I wonder if working for Gas makes people become robots? they cannot think past gas safety!

Gas safe people not doing their job right! and leaving innocent people vulnerable!

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I wonder if working for Gas makes people become robots? they cannot think past gas safety!

So my point is that Gas safe people not doing their job right! are no better than people with knowledge but not registered.

 

[matt1e]

morning all, I havent posted for a bit, and actually cant be bothered to go in depth but, my tuppence worth made quick

You don't need any advice, just your instinct and bear safety of heat from the underfloor heating,

As for suitable flux, we could go on debating all night and still not reach any amicable solution. etc etc etc

OMG! how many bodges i had to put right carried out by pros, bla bla bla!

 

[Mikefromlondon]

if you have any constructive ideas, please feel free to pass it on, giving advice or knowledge is not illegal, ( except giving advice on how to make boms) experts in different fields join these forums to give free advice, they may have spent fortune acquiring skills and experiences, they selflessly pass their hard acquired tricks of the trade, this is what these DIYnot forums should be about. Sharing good information around. This does not mean we are encouraging people to go and break the law!

Oh the guy who started this thread is already aware that if he lays pipes in the underfloor, he has to keep them away from heat! quite a clever dick i would think, or shall we say common sense approach, and whats more he is not going to need any flux as he is not making any joints, as he stated clearly that it was a short straight run!

He just wanted to submerge a pipe in the floor/ground so that when his cooker arrives he can get a qualified fitter to connect it up to the gas supply and commission, should you not want to tell him that he must not even purchase the pipes because it is going to carry gas and he must not handle any pipes likely to carry gas! and that he should buy it through his gas safe engineer only! what a burger! I feel sorry for him!

All he asked was how far he should bury this pipe in the floor from the underfloor heating elments, so that he can lay this pipe in, proceed with his flooring and tiling, TBH I don't think there is anyone on here who truely knows the answer! (those who knows it now, would definietly been wikiwarriors). Anybody who knew it before would have told him straight!

indeed very helpfull forums, there is aparently more information freely available on Youtube and Google!

 

[swbjackson]

OMG! how many bodges i had to put right carried out by pros, including one incident where Transco guy changed a gas meter and left the test nipple loose! allowing it to continually leak and build up raw gas in a celler where the meter was fitted! Good job the owner called me for my independent opinion before calling the pros to come and see their works of wonder! I was able to take pictures of that meter showing bubbles forming out from the leaked nipple, Oh as I am not a professional gas fitter I do not carry leak spray but ever reliable fairy liquid came to rescue and thus I was able to save the street from blowing nearly all the houses and think how many lives I saved that day!

Do you want a medal? Are you aware of the reasons that you shouldn't use fairy liquid (other dishwashing detergents are available) as leak detection fluid?

The correct action in the above scenario would have been to shut off the emergency control valve and call the emergency number.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Quite right. Because when they came back there wasn't a leak. What did you expect?

You tightened the test nipple. Stopped a leak. They came out again. Couldn't find a leak. Whoope dee do. Your Blue Peter badge is in the post.

Now, what in the name of Bill's ball bag has this to do with the OP?

 

[denso13]

This does not mean we are encouraging people to go and break the law!

Trouble is, that's exaclty what you would be doing if you told someone how to DIY gas if they didn't know how to do it in the first place.