So you think the conversation will go better when he tells the installer he is not happy with the work based on him getting the opinion of others on a forum, yeah that will go down just great, he is obviously concerned about the installation and not happy with the work HE is paying for, what has happened to peoples ability just to tell the installer they are not happy with the work, rather than having to run it past a load of strangers on the internet
Is this work acceptable (pics)? Central heating system.
- Thread starter alunmorris
- Start date
So you think the conversation will go better when he tells the installer he is not happy with the work based on him getting the opinion of others on a forum, yeah that will go down just great, he is obviously concerned about the installation and not happy with the work HE is paying for, what has happened to peoples ability just to tell the installer they are not happy with the work, rather than having to run it past a load of strangers on the internet
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Little unfair that SIlverback.
The Op is asking what we think as he is not an expert.
It also looks as though it may be connected wrong anyway, so you could say a bonus, but still no way the OP would have known.
The best way to use any forum is to ask first, not wait till it all goes tits up.
The Op is asking what we think as he is not an expert.
It also looks as though it may be connected wrong anyway, so you could say a bonus, but still no way the OP would have known.
The best way to use any forum is to ask first, not wait till it all goes tits up.
Ok it's not great but it's fine, if it doesn't leak I wouldn't worry, big big issue is if that one pipe goes to both valves? If it does it's very wrong on an actual working issue.
Never trust a builder, they know naff all when it comes to anything technical. As for a few on here talking about plastic etc, ignore, they're the ones who don't/have never used it in great quantities.
Never trust a builder, they know naff all when it comes to anything technical. As for a few on here talking about plastic etc, ignore, they're the ones who don't/have never used it in great quantities.
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It was and still is a one pipe system. I was advised to replace all the old rads. Most of the ground floor pipes have now been renewed. When I saw the corroded old copper pipes I asked for plastic where set in concrete, which the plumber misunderstood as pipes everywhere to be plastic. I did not know that you are to keep plastic fittings accessible. In fact I later asked for the downstairs pipes to be re-located to be behind the skirting since we had to dry line the lounge walls. The builder agreed but today concreted them in. I was, er, surprised to see how this looked:
There is no insulation on the pipes under floorboards Surely this wastes heat? I have tired of challenging the builder - he now just replies "it's fine", or "you never clip pipes under floorboards" and "plastic pipes never go wrong".
Oh dear.
Best thing to do now is write a letter, explaining you are unhappy about the pipework alteration but despite your concerns nothing was changed.
Then go on to say you hold them responsible for any future problems which will be repaired at their expanse and get them to sign it.
Don't pay until he does.
Then go on to say you hold them responsible for any future problems which will be repaired at their expanse and get them to sign it.
Don't pay until he does.
The TRV looks like a normal cheapie which almost certainly won't be designed to work on a one pipe system. If that small rad's a single you might get away with it
If this is under the ground floor, pipes should deffo be insulated. (Building regs)
The cemented fitting is dumb -has he entombed the whole pipe?
A bit of pipe insulation could have sleeved it. You never get all the clips the manual says, but this guy's gone a bit far.
If you're going to get a leak it'll be most likely where something's strained at a joint, or a pipe's damaged before it's shoved into the fitting, or things can't move when the pipes heat up & cool.
But woud it "work ok" -as is? Probably, for years. We can pick it to pieces but this standard is depressingly common practice.
If this is under the ground floor, pipes should deffo be insulated. (Building regs)
The cemented fitting is dumb -has he entombed the whole pipe?
A bit of pipe insulation could have sleeved it. You never get all the clips the manual says, but this guy's gone a bit far.
If you're going to get a leak it'll be most likely where something's strained at a joint, or a pipe's damaged before it's shoved into the fitting, or things can't move when the pipes heat up & cool.
But woud it "work ok" -as is? Probably, for years. We can pick it to pieces but this standard is depressingly common practice.
G
gaswizzard
So why leave it on a one pipe? , surely it should of been converted to a two pipe considering the pipework required replacing.
No wonder the good guys loose out to these cheap skate so called 'plumbers'.
This trade had gone to the dogs.
, there is no hope.It is not unfair, his first post said "I'm concerned about the longevity of this installation".
That is all that matters, he is the paying client, if he is not happy with the work then as the client he has the right to ask for it to be changed, it is pointless asking on here, you could show the picture of a very neat installation and I bet someone on the web would find fault somewhere, you are only looking at pictures, this does not always give the full outlook, but if the OP is not happy then he needs to say he is not happy and he needs to say he will not be paying until it is rectified.
Indeed. I was thinking that.So why leave it on a one pipe? , surely it should of been converted to a two pipe considering the pipework required replacing.
Sorry, but you are still missing the point completely.
If the guy doesn't know about plumbing then he can't assess this himself.
If everyone here had said something along the lines of "not as tidy as it could have been, but it'll be fine 'forever'" then that may have dealt with his concerns.
How many times do you hear of trades having done a job, but the customer won't pay because they are unhappy about something irrelevant. Had it been an "OK" job then coming and asking here would have avoided that awkward situation.
As it is, people have pointed why he is right to be concerned - which means he can now discuss the matter without (potentially) going into battle unarmed.
We hear plenty of stories where the customer is unhappy, but ends up paying because he doesn't have anything to back up his concerns and so if "out gunned" because those doing the bad work can speak with authority - you know, "been doin' this for years ...". What if they start talking about the pipes and fittings being way over spec for the job, "they'll take 20 dynamic megaflugels, but this system only runs at 5 flizens per hour" - complete b***ocks, but someone who knows nothing about plumbing wouldn't have a chance of countering that.
Now, if it were to "get legal" then he'd need to get someone else in to give him a proper report on what's been done wrong. As you suggest, asking "some blokes on the internet" won't do for that.
Indeed. I was thinking that.So why leave it on a one pipe? , surely it should of been converted to a two pipe considering the pipework required replacing.
Sorry, but you are still missing the point completely.
If the guy doesn't know about plumbing then he can't assess this himself.
If everyone here had said something along the lines of "not as tidy as it could have been, but it'll be fine 'forever'" then that may have dealt with his concerns.
How many times do you hear of trades having done a job, but the customer won't pay because they are unhappy about something irrelevant. Had it been an "OK" job then coming and asking here would have avoided that awkward situation.
As it is, people have pointed why he is right to be concerned - which means he can now discuss the matter without (potentially) going into battle unarmed.
We hear plenty of stories where the customer is unhappy, but ends up paying because he doesn't have anything to back up his concerns and so if "out gunned" because those doing the bad work can speak with authority - you know, "been doin' this for years ...". What if they start talking about the pipes and fittings being way over spec for the job, "they'll take 20 dynamic megaflugels, but this system only runs at 5 flizens per hour" - complete b***ocks, but someone who knows nothing about plumbing wouldn't have a chance of countering that.
Now, if it were to "get legal" then he'd need to get someone else in to give him a proper report on what's been done wrong. As you suggest, asking "some blokes on the internet" won't do for that.
But he already has assessed it himself, his first comment "I'm concerned about the longevity of this installation". that's all the assessment he needs as the paying client he is not happy, that is the end of the matter, do you think that no one ever complained about an installers work before the internet was invented, where they could run it past some forum users for their opinion, If he is not happy then tell the Builder/Installer, if the builder says it is ok tell him that you will get an independent installer in to assess the installation and if he finds fault it will be at the cost of the builder, that will normally get them moving, it is difficult to assess the installation based on some photos, if you need re-assurance you need another installer on site where they can see the whole job.
Really ? Just because someone is concerned doesn't mean they actually know enough to know whether they should be concerned or not.
Have you never done a job where it's all "just fine" but the customer (for whatever reason) turns round and tells you he doesn't think it's right and he's not paying ? If you've never had that, then I suspect you're in the minority judging from some of the comments I've read in here (and stories I've heard first hand). If you have then I assume you'd agree it doesn't help the working relationship.
No, of course I don't. People used to use other help forums - mates down the pub and so on. All the internet has done is make "the pub" a rather larger geographical target with more people in it.
That's all very well for you to say, but just try and put yourself in the shoes of someone who knows f***-all about plumbing. When someone who's been "doin' it for years" tells you there's nothing wrong, then it takes a fair bit of confidence to turn round and call him a liar when you know f***-all about it.
This guy has come here for advice - the modern equivalent of asking a few people he sort-of knows down the pub. Based on the replies he's got, then I expect he'll go back and tell the builder it's not right - but he'll be able to do so with a bit more than "I've a gut feeling it doesn't look right but then what do I know" !
Had he been told that "it's OK" then he'd be able to avoid that confrontation and it probably would satisfy his concerns (I have seen that in other threads).
So you think that the DIYnot forum is the solution to his problem, yes I agree as the home owner he probably does not know much about plumbing, but he knows enough to think there is a problem, asking on here and showing pictures for others to criticise is not the right way to do things, if he really is concerned he needs to get the opinion of another installer on site, it is not possible for anyone on here to give advice without seeing the actual installation, then they can advise fully and correctly, rather than stabbing in the dark as is happening on here
It has helped me. I hate confrontation and the builder has defaulted to saying "it's fine" to everything I'm unhappy about. Since I'm not certain I let them go but I now believe the plumbing has so many sub-standard aspects (at least six!) I have asked another plumber whom I trust to inspect.
Thanks to all for their time in replying.
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